In , out, shake it all about

[TheArtfulDogger]

Was the eu agreement good enough yesterday and now we are going to the polls which way will you be voting ?

[Louisa]

I'm voting to leave. I have always been sceptical anyway, but hearing Lord Mandelson cosy upto Cameron on Newsnight during the week was my tipping point. Phrases such as 'gravy train' may seem over used to some, but for me and my generation who voted yes first time around, the whole thing continually stinks of undemocratic bureaucracy. For me, it isn't just a matter of flag waving jingoism, it's about giving back to the working people the voice and chance to choose their own destiny. The EU prevents this country from controlling so many aspects of day-to-day life. Endless red tape for small business and workers.

If Cameron had returned with a total overhaul of the lack of democracy in this organisation, I would have been the first to stand up and support the deal. He hasn't done that. He's returning to the UK with a few irrelevant (to most people's lives) paper pushing finite details. Cameron, is part of the political elite, he wants us to carry on this path so he and his buddies have a career after domestic politics. It's all so wrong. Get out of the EU and give our workers the opportunity to be free again.

Louisa.

[DulwichFox]

David Cameron told us about the things he achieved.. But told us nothing about the things he failed to achieve..

Most ordinary people in this country do not really understand what anything he said would mean for them..

He seemed obsessed with issues like how much Polish Migrants would get in benefits... ??

We have a Special Status.. ?? WTF does that mean... ?

Do we keep our own Parliament.. ?

Can we make our own laws.. ?

Do we control our own economy..?

Do we control our own borders.. ?

I have never supported being in Europe. I was against the E.E.C. The Common Market. back in 1975 (Referendum).

I will vote to leave..

DulwichFox

[Townleygreen]

I will be voting to stay, for the sake of my children and the peace of Europe.

Have no time for the "Outers" like George Galloway.

[Blah Blah]

Voting to stay here too. Don't know anyone who is voting to leave.

[Loz]

Voting to stay. I really haven't seen one good argument to leave.

Having said that, all the terrible things being predicted - "Brexit will lead to an increase in terrorism", "Brexit threatens rights to maternity leave and paid holiday", "Brexit could push the Falklands closer to Argentina", "Brexit would lead to an increase in petrol prices" are really starting to annoy me.

[????]

Will be very reluctantly voting to remain. Very unconvinced Europe is ready to the make the necessary reforms for its flailing economies or democratic engagement or much needed bureaucratic reform but do fear for our economy for out. I think Cameron has been incredibly weak and underplayed our negotiations. We have a trade deficit with the EU, are a massive trading partner for the likes of France and Germany who would have granted us an immediate trade deal anyway we are net contributor and many of the Northern European countries share our basic economic philosophy and views on markets etc. Europe would be far weaker without us in and Cameron's rolled over. Not sure an out vote will worry me that much.

[????]

Also fed up with the arguments that all antis are little englanders, same argument was used about the Euro and I shudder to think the disaster we'd have faced in that idiocy. Credit to Balls and Brown, very rare from me.

[Louisa]

My biggest fear is if we remain, this club will continue to expand into poorer regions of former soviet Europe; and beyond. This will lead to a more competitive union, with many northern EU net contributors falling further behind, whilst continuing to fund poorer nations who, on the whole, join the club to take out rather than put in. The issues of border controls, international security and investment/trade are all red herrings. These things will continue regardless of whether we remain or leave. The key point should be, we get to choose our own economic destiny by not being shackled by the EU and prevented from trading with a much wider global market. It's a no brainer for me. If only people were given the facts, I think we would have left this centralised monster years ago.

Louisa.

[uncleglen]

I'm definitely voting to leave....petty bureaucracy, the gravy train, the awful power trip the EU went on over fishing and the abuses by foreign fisherman in British waters over the years, the ridiculous unreasonable attitude of the East European politicians over the terms- just because millions of benefit money and tax credit money is pouring out of the UK into their countries. The whole political machine of the EU is like something from Kafka.....And I truly believe that they need us more than we need them and they are not prepared to back down because they are a bunch of fascist lefty a-holes

[Nigello]

Out

[nashoi]

Probably out.

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm

Above is a link to the pamphlet distributed to households by the Wilson govt in 75 arguing for us to stay in.

[Jeremy]

Stay. Better for employment/economy. Better for the industry I work in.

[ratty]

In! I'd vote to leave this uncaring, selfish, poor bashing shithole of a country if I could! Viva Europe!

[Otta]

In.

But I feel a bit like quids.

And part if me wants out just for something interesting.

[red devil]

I'm going to shake it all about...

[peckham_ryu]

It's not brilliant, but I don't see much point in leaving now. I'll call myself 'undecided' until I've heard both sides, but would be surprised if I were persuaded to go for no.

I think it would be much more sporting to let everyone in Europe vote for who they want to kick out of the EU, after a continental balloon debate. I'd vote Belgium. I bet loads would vote us out.

[????]

ratty Wrote:

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> In! I'd vote to leave this uncaring, selfish, poor

> bashing shithole of a country if I could! Viva

> Europe!

such a shithole, filled with young Europeans who have fled their paradises with no jobs or opportunities for our shithole. Or haven't you noticed? You can go anywhere in Europe ratty, so I call typical lefty bullsh1t

[????]

France, Greece, Portugal and now Spain all have lefty govts why don't you fuck off to one of them if you hate your own country so much?

[Otta]

To be fair, ratty works in a field where he sees exactly how bad things can get for people, often directly because of gov policies. It's hardly surprising that that would shape a person's views. This country could treat the poor a lot better.

But yes, thgere are far worse places within Europe.

[Alan Medic]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> France, Greece, Portugal and now Spain all have

> lefty govts why don't you @#$%& off to one of them

> if you hate your own country so much?

Like anyone owns a country? It's a small planet in a huge universe and wasn't formed with bits stamped "England","France" etc. Slightly off topic but not that much.

[????]

So if you're in a stamped bit you hate and hate being in and you have free movement to other stamped bits which have govts that suit your political beliefs why stay in this social construct rather than go to another social construct which has the type of social constructed philosophy as "its" own govt (another social construct); you been on the hash cookies AM?

[maxxi]

Always been an 'in' but lately... the smugness and the patronising and the scare stories don't bother me as they are to be expected. It's just that I sometimes think 'what if we really did it?' The 'deal' means nothing and changes nothing. The pull of the unknown appeals. A lot.

Before the Scots ref. I wanted them to stay but now i think they should have voted for independence and I have to confess to leaning more and more to breaking things down/up.

I think I am - at present - an 'out'.

[edcam]

As much as I hate to agree with Cameron, we'd be foolish to leave. The EU is far from ideal but an isolated UK would be potentially disastrous. And as has been pointed out recently, Putin and Le Pen want us to leave, Obama and Merkel want us to stay. That pretty much says it all.

[Blah Blah]

???? the poor are trapped. Telling people to f off to another country because their own government is too right wing to care about them is no answer. Just look at the six Tory cabinet members that are for Brexit, some of the nastiest and most right wing people in government.