Conflicted litter lout on CPR

[Nero]

On Crystal Palace Road, near to the Tavern, about an hour or so ago I spotted a young mother, complete with trendy buggy, jute bag, designer sunglasses, cropped trousers, stylish hair, finish off her chocolate bar, crumple up the wrapper and, very tidily, stuff it into a privet hedge. It intrigued me so much. She was the Lucinda of litter louts.

If you are that woman, please let us know what was going on in your mind.

Oh, and a word of advice: ditch the snacks, luv. That way, both your figure and the local environment might improve.

(I've seen other people place bottles on the top of walls or besides lampposts, or deposit huge plastic bags of trash next to someone's household bin.

Psychologically, they must be thinking that they are at least doing some good, or perhaps not doing as much harm as a 'real' litterbug who would just drop their rubbish willy nilly.)

[pk]

if you were so intrigued, why didn't you ask her?

[dave]

Retrieving the litter and giving it back to the litterer with a gentle "I'm sorry, I think you dropped this..." often works a treat in this sort of situation. They know that you know that they didn't drop it at all, but they're generally too embarrassed to do anything but mumble, say thank you and carry their litter away.

[James]

Would it have been better if she'd been a Special Brew-swigging, track-suited chav throwing it into the road? Would that have been somehow more understandable?

What has her social status got to do with it? And why the bitchy remark about 'ditching the snacks'? Miaow!

[brianb]

BIG DEAL....

[Townleygreen]

pathetic and utterly feeble as a post, IMHO

[Horsebox]

You seem to have touched a nerve with some posters, Nero.

It might be a big deal for the person who has to pick bits of litter out of their privet hedge.

On a recent lunch break I was walking past a bus stop close to my office where a woman was sat, presumably waiting for bus. As I approached she pulled out a packet of cigarettes, unwrapped the plastic, ripped off the foil and preceded to light up, but not before dropping the rubbish on the floor.

What really surprised / annoyed me was that she was actually sitting less than a metre from a bin.

I stopped and said "Excuse me, you appear to have missed the bin."

Her response:

"Wot? If you're so fucking bothered then YOU pick it up."

Short of questioning her sanity and/or intelligence or offering to smoke the cigarette for her as well, I wasn't really sure what to say back, and although I did pick up the litter and put it in the bin, I left the scene feeling that despite my moral victory, in her mind she probably felt that she had the upper hand.

I hate littering in all it's forms and usually pointing out that someone has dropped something is enough to embarrass them into thinking about it and stuffing the offending article into their pocket.

Doesn't always work though.

[MadWorld74]

I'd love to stop w*nkers from littering. I'm always picking up people's sh*t from my pathway that they dump as they walk past. Knee-cap 'em I say. Trouble is, I'd probably come off alot worse than them in todays yuth climate.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Nero + Horsebox = right

[Nero]

I mentioned her social status because it added to my sense of shock. I didn't expect such a socially aware, middle-class woman to do such an underhand thing. Had she simply dropped it on the floor, it would have been bad, but sneaking it into a privet bush while probably thinking 'I'm not at all bad , because noone can see it and only real louts drop litter' - for what other reason could there be - was worse. And I was intrigued rather than outraged because I was really trying to work out her reason for her actions. Outrage gets me going, making me want to confront someone. Intrigue makes me think and makes me less likely to be indignant.

James. I am no Louisa, so only mention class/appearance when it is valid. She looked like a 'nice young woman', one who you wouldn't think would do that kind of thing. And bitchy because this place is too nice, sometimes.

Townley Green, when you post something that is topical, local, and psychologically insightful, do PM me. I'll then you give MHO.

Horsebox, Nerves are raw in SE22. Can you imagine if it were an ORGANIC hedge?

Brianb, it's rude to shout.

[Guest]

Nero, you have captured the essence of East Dulwich in a nutshell.

[RosieH]

Tightly argued Nero, good call. I hate litter too, and agree her actions were intriguing.

And i say more bitching. Apart from sniping at each other (or, you know, the undesirables) we all play terribly nicely on here

[ontheedge]

Totally agree with Neros post, it really galls me when people just drop litter, and it does make me wonder is that what they do in their own homes. It shows a total disrepect for their environment.

I work in a hospital and have seen people just drop sweet papers in the corridors and have often called after them to say I think you've dropped something to get the unembarrased response no it's ok. It's unbelievable.

[HonaloochieB]

Nero I think was making a fair observation. I'm sure the woman in question would be horrified to be accused of littering and wouldn't have dreamt of doing it along the main drag on a Saturday afternoon, but she probably thought that stufing it into a hedge was acceptable because she thought no one was watching. Which makes me wonder what sort of powers of concealment you have Nero. Close enough to observe, yet camouflaged enough that she felt comfortable enough to act naturally. I look forward to more reports of unguarded behaviour from ED denizens. Except of course in the case of stout parties dropping things and picking them up in an embarrassing fashion and so on. In this I would ask a measure of discretion.

One definition of conscience is doing the right thing when we think no one is watching, perhaps though being we're all frail humans we're subject to lapses. I like that you were intrigued Nero, and I think perhaps she had made a bargain with herself, 'I cannot drop this carelessly on the pavement, this hedge is not a pavement and I am placing it deliberately, not to say safely and firmly, so that it won't fall to the pavement and therefore be litter"

Whether she subsequently thought of the owners of the hedge "F@ck 'em" we're obviously not privy to.

I thought that SM's math(sss) on the subject added up.

[candj]

I completely agree with you Nero and think this is a great post and a very valid topic. Littering is disgusting and irresponsible but it's very difficult to change the mindset of an adult who has littered and presumably has always done so and thinks it's okay. I have often confronted people who have carelessly thrown their rubbish and have mostly been met with their embarrassment but on a few occasions have been given back a whole mouthful of expletives! We have to nip it in the bud and teach our youth that this is not a good thing to do. I think Nero mentioning this woman's social status is a valid point also as the "jute" bag might imply that she had some kind of environmental awareness, but apparently not!

[ratty]

People that drop litter are lazy coonts who deserve an old style pompey shoeing imo! Hail Nero!

[Cassius]

I walked across Goose Green early last Saturday morning to pass a seat covered with the debris of a takeaway meal - there was a bin within a couple of meters. I simply do not understand the mentality of people who cannot clear up after themselves.

[James]

I am still bemused as to why people of some social classes are deemed more reprehensible than others for dropping litter. surely EVERYONE knows it's a bad thing? Why is it worse if a yummy mummy does it? Isn't this a bit patronising to working-class people?

[SeanMacGabhann]

But as we saw on this forum when someone actually DID something to stop them littering (ie fine them an amount which would make someone think twice about doing it again) some people got the right hump, saying it was disproportionate

I know Bill Bryson was made some kind of litter tsar (sorry.. just had to go and bite hard on the desk after writing that phrase) but apart from one or two interviews I can't say as he has made much impact.

The litter istelf bugs me - but more than that it's an act that is so illustrative of much that is really wrong in the country*, Not wrong as in what the papers peddle (immigration, tax, computer games) but the complete disassociation between an individuals actions and the impact around them. Get that fixed and you will see genuine change in the country

* Not that I'm all doom and gloom. I don't think the country is going to "hell in a hand-cart". But there are areas for improvement

[SeanMacGabhann]

Oh and PLEASE let's not get bogged down in class again.

I read Nero's post, not as anything class based - but illustrating the obvious care the woman took with her own appearance which was in contrast to the way she treated her environment

[Asset]

I like the idea of some town council or other which I read about last year. The street cleaners don't do the job for a couple of days once a month or something and the idea is to make people more aware of the litter and hopefully think before littering. Not sure if it worked.

Part of the problem is the idea that it doesn't matter as someone will come along and clear it up.

[Strawbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

>

> The litter istelf bugs me - but more than that

> it's an act that is so illustrative of much that

> is really wrong in the country*, Not wrong as in

> what the papers peddle (immigration, tax, computer

> games) but the complete disassociation between an

> individuals actions and the impact around them.

> Get that fixed and you will see genuine change in

> the country

>

>

> * Not that I'm all doom and gloom. I don't think

> the country is going to "hell in a hand-cart". But

> there are areas for improvement

^

that

I am absolutely appalled when I see people littering, I truly dont see a need for it.. Do they actually care that little for their surroundings that they are happy for it look like a bag of sh*t with litter all over it?? (6) Many a time I have seen people throw litter out of their car windows without a care in the world, it absolutely infuriates me to the point where I want to say something to them but a small part of me fears they would get out of their car and beat the crap out of me which is a whole another problem our society is facing at the moment.... *sigh*

[SeanMacGabhann]

It's not just "hostile" society which does it strawbs

I think it might have been another facet to Nero's post. I remember taking a walk in Finsbury Sq near Moorgate with one of my staff who was having home problems and wanted some advice. So we were wandering around a lovely spot in the city when, mid-sentence she chucked the wrapper from her sandwich on the ground. This was someone I had no need to fear would attack me but when I caller her on it she became aggressive and wanted to know what my problem was, someone would come and pick it up!! (backing up Asset's point)

Where does the attitude come from?

(in probability, there are people reading this NOW who wonder what the problem is and find it hilarious that people get worked up about a bit of litter. Which is Missing. The. Point)

[Ganapati]

Nero--I completely agree with you on litter, but the tone of your post is really quite annoyingly misogynistic. What has this woman's figure got to do with littering? So women can't enjoy a candy bar without having to worry that she's going to blimp out and therefore offend some passing male's delicate eyes? If this had been a man, there would have been no mention of "ditching the snacks, luv."

[hoipolloi]

I am entirely with Nero when it comes to litter and I can sort of see why you mentioned her apparent social status but really, "advising" her to ditch the snacks to improve her figure.....can't really see the relevance of that at all.