ChavWivaLawDegree

Haha - I'm a bad example Mockers (or maybe not if you ask Mr M!).

But why don't you guys have more sympathy for kids born to fu$?&%d up parents who don't want them, than for a feotus?

Posh bashing may be fun, but doesn't really compare to the oppression of the poor that the elite have enjoyed for longer than they have been chasing foxes around the countryside.

Hear Hear, Fizzy!

She doesn't drive, but thanks for your heartfelt congratulations.

This is from Jah Lush's namesake - Jah Cure - Prison Walls Behind these prison walls Doing my paces Doing my time I am, Spending my restless nights Visioning faces Oh they all crying Cryyyyyyyyyying Prison ah nuh bed a roses The livity it makes me ball I wish that jah could come and take us back in time Cause I swear That I can be a better man Yes I swear, if only you could understand The faith in me shall set me free reflection The faith in me shall set me free reflection Behind these metal bars To jah jah im chanting Pray for your love divine Im oh so sorry I am Deeply I am hurting The price ordained to be mine Impossible to see the changes, that I've made in my life All they see is just the boy, they left be behind And I swear, That I can be a better man Yes I swear, if only you could understand The faith in me shall set me free reflection The faith in me shall set me free reflection Dont judge me wrong Cause now i am stronger than I was before I was young and unwise Didn't you hear my cry Impossible to see the change That I've made in my life All they see is just the boy i left behind Cause i swear I can be a better man Cause I swear if only you could understand I swear I can be a better man And I swear (if only you could understand), I swear The faith in me shall set me free relection (reflection) (repeat line until music fades)

My daughter, who lives in a council flat in an adjacent road, was dancing round her garden with delight because for once the posh tw@ts weren't able to stick one up their chav neighbours.

Woooh woooh - cartwheels round the sitting room!!

Didn't get the job I went for, so decided to sod the internet job searching, printed off a load of CV's, tarted myself up a bit, bought a bus pass and harassed every solicitors with an immigration dept from here to Elephant, and guess what??? Some mad person gave me a job!!! It's only a voluntary position, but I'm really happy I finally got the position I wanted (immigration paralegal) and didn't have to resort to flipping burgers or stacking shelves (again)!! I start on Monday so will have to dig out all my suity kind of clothes and start thinking like an adult at long last! Thank you so much Maurice for showing me the error of my ways!

I'd buy a house on the top end of Camberwell Grove and have very noisy parties every night.

Couldn't someone invent/build a sort of parking crate thing to put in front of your house to keep motorbikes safe? Maybe it would have to go in a garden, but you could see if the council would let you put one in the street, cos they are obviously not being kept safe at the moment and bikes are greener than cars so should be encouraged.

She wasn't really a publicity seeker before the divorce tho was she? I can't remember her popping up all ove the place, except for animal rights stuff occasionally, so it doesn't really make sense to say at a traumatic time in her life she would be seeking publicity. I also can't stand Mr Mc, arrogant twat that he is, and do wonder how much his people are fuelling the hate campaign against her, in order to get a better deal in the divorce courts. I'm slightly on her side, but none of us really know enough to to make an informed judgement on this.

Or they'd need to get their shit together.

Did I win yet? Sorry, I have a kind of darkness in my soul!

I wanted to go because my daughter lives nearby and has been adversely affected by the increased traffic, but I can't make it. I might see if my daughter can go, I hope the Lyndhurst people have their legal people too.

Edited cos I was kind of exaggerating for dramatic effect!! But it could have all been true! ....any woman who knows she cannot cope with a child, should never have to have that child; because the pain the feotus may or may not feel when aborted, cannot be compared to the pain a child may feel throughout it's life and the pain that child's future children may feel; unless you are prepared to start supporting these children and making sure they are looked after, no matter what is costs society.

But child abuse and neglect to unwanted children on the other hand can be quantified. As can post-natal depression, increased risk of suicide, alcoholism and drug abuse.

Maurice - not a pardon, an explanation and does that personal responsibility also extend to finding out the provenance of the goods we buy, the services we use and the level of exploitation used to produce them? Or what about taking responsibility for other acts that may make make our life more pleasant, but may adversely impact someone elses life, eg campaining against drug services or trying to keep our road blocked off from traffic?

I took my daughter and her friend out and had a great time. We did observe the pumkin rule, so didn't upset anyone. Some people had some brilliant Halloween decorations. I had a pumpkin in my window and left a massive bowl of sweets on a chair oustide for any kids to help themselves, but most of them were still there when we got back! I think my dogs may have scared them off, so my daughter has way too many sweets and chocolates now!

The point I was trying to make re suffering in the world, was much better made by BarryM and Snorky. When horrendous things are being done in our name to innocent people all around the world who are already living, why do some people get obbsessed about trying to save an unwanted feotus? Who is going to then ensure this feotus has a happy life, or has it's needs met - or does the anti-choice work finish as soon as the baby is born? Also trauma is relative. Many people make life-changing decisions of huge magnitude, and may not feel that deciding to have a termination comes anywhere near this e.g soldiers having to shoot someone in front of them, someone having to make a choice to save some but not all of their kids in a fire/famine/war zone etc. I was not traumatised by having a termination, because it was not as traumaric as other things I have had to live through, e.g being an unwanted child. Something else; it seems to me that the very people who blame kids for being out of control when they have appalling lives, are the very same ones who would prefer their mothers to keep another unwanted baby to allow to become out of control. When you help those already born, then you have more moral weight in your anti-abortion stance. I am someone who always wants to help people whose lives are messed up for whatever reasons, and this is why I know you should not force people who cannot cope, to have babies they cannot look after.

The Castle

So do you think when there is war and famine and people living in poverty all around the world, because we like cheap organic food and shiny crap we don't need, that women who know thay cannot look after another child for whatever reason should wring their hands and wail because they decide to control their own reproduction and have a termination. I never said I took the decision lightly, or was flippant about it. I said I was not traumatised. I did something i felt I needed to do and just got on with it, as many people around the world have to do every day in countless ways. Sorry for not being suitably damaged by the experience. Also if we want to look at trauma, what about the woman who is denied an abortion, and forced to carry an unwanted baby to term, go through an agonising labour with all the physical and mental trauma that might entail and then what? Be stuck with a baby she can't bond with or cannot look after? Or maybe the infertile of you will tell her that she should give it up for adoption. What about the trauma caused every time she looks at the scars from pregnancy or remembers the baby she gave away? Or the fear that the kid will come looking for her with blame in it's eyes when it gets to 18? Or what about the kid, adopted by people with no genetic similarities, who grows up always feeling different? Or the adoptive parents who find they cannot love a child who seems like an alien because it has no similarities to them? What about all that trauma? Is that trauma preferable to the minimal/non-trauma of a termination? By the way my first child was born 10 weeks early, so I know about special care babies, but that does not change my view that any child that is not wanted should not have to be born.

Was i being sensitive? That's not like like me! Hmmn, I think I'm too used to sparring with Mr M, sorry if you weren't having a pop.

Trying to get an easy dig Maurice? And there was me feeling all warm towards you, because you had finally said something I could actually agree with.

DaveR - It may be an offence (not sure about that tho because I have no idea what statute you are quoting) - but it's not murder, because it is not a human in the eyes of the law until it is expelled and has taken it's first breath. Mikeb & Nero - I think there is no way you can give more weight to the rights of a feotus than you can to a sentient adult woman. if she knows she does not want a baby, why would anyone force her to have it? What kind of life would that child have? Shaman - what makes you think the trauma of an abortion will never leave a woman? This is a patronising attitude that perpetuates the stereotype of the weak minded, unstable, infantile woman. I have had 2 terminations at 8 and 12 weeks, I suffered no trauma as I knew as soon as I was pregnant that I did not want to be. Women are capable of making difficult decisions about their lives and the lives of their family, without needing counsellors telling us how we should feel.