DJKillaQueen

I have to conceed that the idea that anyone is a 'soldier' for Christ rather than a 'follower of' or 'believer in' does evoke a militaristic image, which can in turn only be associated with violent conquest. Extreme branches of Islam also refers to it's followers as soldiers of Islam, and there is no mistaking the intent there, for sure. Having said that though, I think most people sing Jerusalem or OCS because they like the hymns (I personally love the music for Jerusalem) and pay little attention to what the lyrics really mean or represent.

If it's emulsion you should be able to wipe the marks off. If you use a lightly damp sponge, you'll not only find the mark comes off but that the paint around it softens to cover the mark left.

This is what Wiki says; Onward Christian Soldiers - the words were written by Sabine Baring-Gould in 1865, and the music was composed by Arthur Sullivan in 1871 - So a good few centuries after any crusade. The hymn's theme is taken from references in the New Testament to the Christian being a soldier for Christ, for example II Timothy 2:3 (KJV): "Thou shalt endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ." The lyric was written as a processional hymn for children walking from Horbury Bridge, where Baring-Gould was curate, to Horbury St Peter's Church near Wakefield, Yorkshire, at Whitsuntide in 1865. It was originally entitled, "Hymn for Procession with Cross and Banners." According to the Center for Church Music, Baring-Gould reportedly wrote "Onward, Christian Soldiers" in about 15 minutes, later apologizing, "It was written in great haste, and I am afraid that some of the lines are faulty." When Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt met in 1941 on the battleship HMS Prince of Wales to agree the Atlantic Charter, a church service was held for which Prime Minister Churchill chose the hymns. He chose "Onward, Christian Soldiers" and afterwards made a radio broadcast explaining this choice. It seems clear to me that it was a Hymn that is very much of it's time (19th C) and had nothing to do with crusades from the writer. It is indeed metaphorical and that Churchill (and indeed the Salvation Army) chose to adopt it was THEIR take on the lyrics, as opposed to the intention of the writer. But H is right on 'Jerusalem'. It was indeed a poem written to say that England is Heaven on earth......no doubting the intent there.

That's certainly true of some community leadership, but there are others that are almost politicians and social services combined in the work they do for their local community. The only thing I would say is that far to many people in the UK think it is for others to make things happen or improve things for them - rather than getting directly involved themselves and I'm guessing in Singapore the opposite is true. Yes I did watch the programme LM. It was spot on in it's analysis, but that is not a recent phenomenon. It has always been the case that (for most children) how well you do in life is mostly determined by how wealthy your parents are. Two things interested me from the programme - the first being that the gap between independent and state schools in the UK is the largest gap in the world. Now that might be because our public school system is one of the best in the world but even still, the state school system should not be as far behind as it is. The other thing was the measure of a childs cognitive developement by three years of age. That children from wealthier families are usually a year or more ahead by the age of three and that gap widens as they move through the school system. It seems clear to me that we need a state funded pre-school sysem to close that gap for children from poorer backgrounds. I think Sweden already has something like that. I don't know enough about prer-school nursery or the state school curriculum or teaching methods to be able to say what is wrong or would work better on that level, but clearly something is missing that should on paper be reletively easy to change. The other factor of course is class sizes and retention of teaching staff. No child should be in a class of 35 pupils - that's just ridiculous. All the evidence shows that smaller class sizes benefit pupils more. And it also can't be right that some classes find they are given new teachers every three months because a school can't retain staff. A child only gets one shot at education. How long must they pay for the incompetance of the adults that provide that it.

I wonder if Terry wears a hat like yours Artful?

CoE is definitely is more progressive but why is that?.....errr perhaps because historically it emerged out of the rejection of Catholicism and the power of the Vatican in Europe. Other branches of Christianity however have progressed nowhere...and there are lots of them. There are plenty of sensible people with sensible views that are also religious - and there is no problem with that. But equally the nonsense that comes out of the mouths of others, justified by no other statement that 'God says so' drives me insane. So MP Saudi Arabia does not use the hadiths to form it's some of it's laws - or are all those countries just using good old fashioned chauvenism rather than religious reasoning for their oppression of women? In fact, Iran in some respects is not as extreme as other Islamic countries on certain things. What is behind the law that forbids women to drive in Saudi Arabia for example? ALL of those counties use Islamic religious law in some form. You grossly underestimate of the power of religious doctrine in shaping the views and behaviour of people in some parts of the world.

Freedom of religion is a human right, but there is no conflict with that and saying that expressing views that are clearly perjudice sactioned by that religion should be openly criticised. I just don' agree that it's no ones business what a religion decides to practise and preach. After all, the majority of people who are of any kind of religion are usually so because they were born into that culture and then given no freedom as children to learn any alternative. That's why I object to faith schools for example. Most religions operate on a system of oppression and fear...maintained by those that rule them. There's nothing 'free' about any of that.

On other issues such as contraception, homosexuality, he is simply stating the doctrine of the church, and refusing to bend in face of secular assualt in the way that the COE does. Not sure why non-catholics feel they can demand the Catholic church changes in doctrine - its none of their business. Because human rights must always come before religious fanaticism, that's why. I live in a secular country that respects human rights. There is no place here for any religious leaders that sanction prejudice against an entire group of people. And THAT is why so many people have protested about the money spent on his visit......money spent on protecting him from assassination as much as anything else. I assume you include the abused by catholic priests in your description of those in protest of the Pope Santerne? Or have you conveniently forgotten about those people.....or those who may not have got HIV if only they hadn't listened to their Catholic Priest and Pope? The views of this Pope have consequences that have ruined lives forever.......and yes the same can be said of other branches of other religions...and they are all equally destructive for it. It is completely the business of anyone that seeks to end prejudice, and see the laws of common sense before archaic belief systems based on superstition and unproven myth, commonplace. And those people will continue to criticise freely where criticism in due.

This is a very interesting discussion. This means that local communities are often politically very influential for their members. There's both upsides and downsides to that. I guess a comparison would be a residents Association for example which works to create a community, to not only help residents personally...but lobby on other issues. We definitely need more of those in the UK. But to have them you also need people prepared to run them and organise everything (in their free time). I'll be honest and say (as a TA organiser) that it is like pulling teeth to get people involved. We definitely have the wrong attitude to 'community'. We could learn a lot form Singapore in that respect it seems.

I think until we see the impact of the spending review and the coming cuts and job losses it is too early to say what the economy is going to do. When spending power is taken out of the economy (as job losses come) then there's an impact. Also I suspect the slight recovery has more to do with the recovery in banking (how long did their recession last then?)....but for the rest of us there will be no real recovery for a few years at least. Businesses are still complaining that the banks aren't lending for example.

Did satan have an op and then get a letter too? *just couldn't resist* >:D<

Maybe some porn would go down well too :)) *runs to the hills for cover*

The NHS do have many other sucessful and less intrusive ways of fundrasing. They also carry out private treatment as part of income generation too. Then there is car parking and all the other associated income streams. There is plenty of scope for building on those without the need for direct mailing recent patients.

I think Diane will do well in London but overall I think we are going to get a Milliband.....

*cough* I didn't mean beg, I meant putting the idea into the head of recent patients that Kings does fundraising and not for one moment expecting said patient to go from thinking 'I had treatment recently' to 'I could donate as well'......errrr that's why they target recent patients....doh

Exactly Mac.....there are areas that could be trimmed without having to beg from the public or to cut front line services.

I agree. So what if some old granny with a bit of dementia gets such a letter and feels she must donate something.

And still no-one gives a toss for those that don't want to receive such a letter...sigh......

I only objected to the money spent on his visit by our government. The Pope can do and say what he likes but when he describes the likes of me as being 'as big a threat to the planet as the destruction of the rain forests', I have an asolute right to demand not a single penny of my taxes is spent bringing the obnoxious dinosaur here.

Kylie is in jail?

illogical concern for the intangible "feelings" of a few We are talking about vulnerable people, who may well be more vulnerable than usual because they are recovering from recent treatment. OH MY GOD THEY HAVEN'T ASKED FOR MONEY. No but the intention is clear. Why else would they send a letter 'informing' RECENT PATIENTS of the fundraising efforts of Kings? It is clearly done in the belief that recent patients might be more likely to donate or fund raise as they have recently received treatment. It's premeditated to have a desired effect. Not one person on this thread has so far commented on my suggestion of giving patients a box to tick if they don't want to receive associated mail (an opt out option). It is by far to the most sensible solution to safeguard from any complaint.

That was me I think...talking about my cousin. She is an only child - and she works, but only just earns enough (with child tax credits) to make ends meet (but at least she does work). What happens to orphans in Singapore or those with no family (because they must exist)? What happens too if the family that does exist are too poor to support a relative or don't have the room in their home to support another person? In the UK we are very bad at family responsibility esp. when it comes to taking care of elderly parents. Is it selfishness? Or is it just too easy for people to shirk responsibility? I dont know. My mother was looked after by my brother until she died. We'd never have left her to the care of the state. But so many people do.

I was saved from buying it by the free Kylie CD on offer with the Mail...phew.....at least the Kylie CD was real :).

I personally think Bin Laden is dead. But there's no doubt that the money that funds most of the world's terror groups is sat in Swiss banks.

And oh life was so perfect then wasn't it. Women had very few opportunities and often stayed in unhappy marriages. Higher education was for the rich. And everyone had really good health care didn't they....and entire families weren't living in single rooms were they? I could go on. We need births to fill the shortfall in work force needed to keep the now top heavy Malthaus Pyramid from falling over altogether, or a heck of a lot of pensioners are going to find there's no money to pay their state pensions. But there is definitely a case for saying that benefits should be for the first two or three children only. The kind of benefits cases that the likes of the Daily Mail often leaps on are the ones where families have so many children that the benefits they receive are worth the equivalent of a 100k salary and I think most people (including me) would say that can't be right. Oh and nearly all of them are white British families...not a trace of a foreign ethnic origin to be found.