James

Um, yes, regretting the bit about stopping them breeding! Oops. I suppose what I meant was that the problem is bad parenting - which, like bad dog ownership, seems to be passed down from one generation to the next. It's not the kids'/animals' fault themselves. If brought up well, Staffies can be remarkably loving and loyal dogs - like most breeds. Like I said, it's nothing to do with class - there are equally repellant people from all social classes. They just have different bad habits (e.g. trousering unjustified share options as opposed to owning dangerous dogs) Once again, my thoughts are with the little girl who was attacked.

I think it's entirely appropriate to try to figure out why incidents like this are happening. Rather than staying in a perpetual state of rose-tinted deludedness about the world. You might feel a bit different if it was your child that was attacked.

Oh, by the way a friend of mine works for the local police and another friend used to work at Battersea Dogs' and Cats' home. Staffies are by far the most numerous breed of abandoned dog and it doesn't take a genius to work out the sort of people who are breeding them and why.

Okay, hands up, my last point about having a license to have kids was a bit flippant!!! (But sometimes I wonder...) But there is a point behind it. Certain people are all "I know my rights" and no responsibilities. And the rest of society has to deal with the fallout. It's just not right.

Clearly you have not understood my post. The word "chav" is not analogous with the word "Chinese" or Muslim". This was the whole point of what I was saying. Read it again more carefully. An Asian friend of mine refers to "Asian chavs" causing trouble in her local neighbourhood. I think this makes it clear.

Okay so what isn't true in what I've said?

The trouble with stereotypes is that there's usually a grain of truth in them.

Besides which, when we "clashed on schools" you obviously had no idea what you were talking about! So you wisely threw in the towel

Yeah exactly, I am a fool because I disagree with you. Right!

Let's face it CWALD is not a chav at all! There's a huge difference between being working-class and being a chav. Being working-class is a bit like having brown hair or being male or black or straight or whatever - it's just the way you are. One of my best friends is pure, proper working-class. Her parents are from Poplar. She won an assisted place to a private school and now works in a job serving her community. She's one of the sharpest, most articulate people I know. The idea that she's a 'chav' is patronising and ridiculous. A chav is a pejorative word for a subset of working-class people who behave anti-socially and generally believe that their right to do whatever they like outweighs everyone else's freedom and safety. There are similarly revolting people in each social class but it just so happens that the chavs are the most visible (probably since as they are the poorest, their revolting behaviour is played out in public spaces rather than private ones). One could also argue that the welfare state has encouraged a culture of dependency and lack of personal responsibility among some (we see the same thing among certain upper class people actually, the difference being that it's the civil list and not the welfare state subsidising their idleness). Let's put the political correct doublespeak aside for a second and remember that about 99.99% of dogs who bite repeatedly are owned by chavs. Fact. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. It's not the dogs' fault - the problem lies with these irresponsible ownners. I think the only answer is to bring back dog licenses. To be honest I think you should have to get a license to have children to stop these people breeding as well...

The sad thing is it's the owners, not the dog, who are to blame. This forum is always full of people poking fun at the organic vegetables & bugaboo brigade but at least they don't bite! I have a dog and all the dog owners I know would never dream of allowing their animals to behave like this. There are some revolting chavs about (the owners of dogs like this are always chavs) with absolutely no sense of personal responsibility. My heart goes out to your poor daughter, I hope she's okay.

Have visited Gypsy Hill on a couple of occasions - to be honest I thought the place was horrible. Loads of skanky, dodgy-looking characters hanging about. A shame, because some of the houses look lovely. I think you'll find East D and Posh Peckham much nicer!

Have just read what David wrote and I have to agree that yes, you are massively under-qualified to comment. If you were in the position of being offered a school which was officially classed as "failing" until a couple of years ago for an academically gifted child, I think you might be a bit peeved as well. Try to empathize a little. Now you tell me I am a hypocrite because I want to get my son into Haberdashers' yet disapprove of its trying to attract bright/musically gifted children. Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Haberdashers' is a comprehensive that uses banding "in order to ensure a comprehensive intake" (their words, not mine). Since music scholarships are offered, and middle-class parents know how to 'work the system' in other ways, this is plainly disingenuous. What annoys me is the fact that my son had a proportionally LOWER chance of getting in as he was placed in the top band. Why is that fair? You suggest that because I don't approve of Habs' selection process I shouldn't apply there because "I can't have it both ways". What utter nonsense. I did not decide on the selection process. I just want a decent education for my son. If you saw the school he was offered, I'm sure you'd do the same. Nothing to do with league tables actually (why do you assume that I approve of them?) I am not "climbing up one more notch" on the league tables. The state school he was offered was one of the worst in London. All I wanted was a decent one. It doesn't have to be perfect. Why should my bright, hardworking son be offered such an atrocious one? In fact, why should ANY child? I find it amazing that you have waded into a discussion when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. In future, I suggest you think twice before holding forth with your patronizing, misinformed remarks.

I saw him on that bus too. I was hoping he might do his pervy cat impression (as seen on Celebrity Big Brother)

I think it's laughable that Haberdashers' calls itself an Academy (i.e. a comprehensive). A percentage of the kids are getting in on music scholarships (how fair is this to the disadvantaged?) and rather than serving the immediate community, kids from a wider area are allowed in by the complex oversubscription rules (presumably designed to limit the number of genuinely poor kids from the immediate area surrounding the school who might drag down the results). Those who know how to work the system are more likely to be middle-class, while the banding system discriminates against brighter, poorer kids. What an absolute mess.

Wow. Was it worth it in the end? What was the school like? We lookeed at the figures - last year there were something like 120 appeals, of which two were successful. That swung it for us... plus the scholarship. The school he's going to is lovely, thank goodness. Advice for Jimbo - move as near the school of your choice and check the oversubscription criteria asap...

So did you go to Haberdashers' in the end cdonline? That was our first choice - our son was in the top band but we received a letter to say he was 84th on the waiting list. We decided not to bother appealing! They don't seem to give a hoot if your kid is bright, hard-working and motivated, he'd be much better off if he had a statement. Which seems a little unfair.

State schools in Southwark are - with a few notable exceptions - pretty dire. My son (who lives with his mum in a nearby borough with equally bad state schools) has just been awarded a scholarship to a private school. He was rejected by all the decent local state schools which took no account of his academic achievement - they awarded places to kids under other criteria like distance from school, music scholarships and siblings being already in the school (in fact he was discriminated against for being bright by a number of these places because they used banding systems - the upper bands were more oversubscribed). We were left with a hopeless sink school and two offers of scholarships from private schools. So less of the inverted snobbery towards parents who go private, please! I find it especially hypocritical coming from wealthy people who live in big houses but think they're being right-on sending their kids to the local comp (fine if it's a decent one in a posh catchment - we did not have this luxury). More and more parents are going private to save their kids from failing schools and who can blame them? Thank goodness for great private schools like my son's.

Yes Timtim, that sounds like what I'm thinking of. Mouth watering now...

Hi Kat At Song Que I usually have those things that look like spring rolls but are soft and see-through (not fried) - can't remember what they're called. I have to ask them to do it with tofu instead of prawns. And I have a tofu, lemongrass & chilli stir-fry type thing. Their home-made lemonade is lovely. A few nice vegetarian dishes would go down a treat, thanks!

This is fantastic news!!!!!! I was at my fave Vietnamese last night - Song Que on Kingsland Road - took me an hour to get back on public transport and I was just thinking "Wouldn't it be great if East D had a place like that?" I'm vegetarian as well.. fingers crossed everything goes smoothly and best of luck (in my opinion you're onto a winner).

No dirty work clothes? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. I don't want to be rubbing shoulders at the bar with loads of filthy workmen. Unless they are attractive, that is.

The rules are utterly stupid. What would you rather have, Caffe Nero or some useless dilapidated shop that nobody uses? Nero is popular and a welcome addition. I hope they win and stay.

I think the fact that we work the longest hours in Europe has a lot to do with it. It means we end up bribing our kids with material goods to compensate for not being there enough (as a nation we spend way more on Christmas gifts for kids than other European countries). A TV in the bedroom is an example of this kind of appeasement/bribery. My son certainly won't be having one. If he's bored I'll take him to the park or tell him to read a book. There's always the TV in the living room... but I fail to see why he should have one in his bedroom too.

Oh please please please! Waitrose is lovely. Expensive but lovely. Burnt Ash Lane has one (pikey) so why can't we?