SeanMacGabhann

Re ratty?s point about IDS ? I?m going to not only agree with that but also point out that Hague is impressing me as well of late Huguneot ? I?ve had enough of your twisting truculence. By all means disagree with me but to suggest I want 20% of people back in poverty to suit an ideology is beyod contemptible. And you have been repeatedly doing of late Basiccally sir, you can fuck off

I?m not sure I agree there is nothing but shrieking going on and I?d certainly disagree that here is glee on the left at adopting an 80?s role. There seems to be a lot of conflation on all sides and jumping to conclusions I absolutely agree with you on a government having to make tough choices which will be unpopular ? and how necessary some of that is Beyond that tho?, I?m not sure I can share much ? again, I go back to the simple point ? these people who will have their benefits cut are not going to get jobs, by and large. The market is saturated with much better candidates. This does not make these people bad or stupid. And there is an air of ?well it?s their own fault ? these people have a choice? eminating from the government And even if the labour party, the liberals and everyone else didn?t revert to 80?s type and were supportive of the ?necessary? cuts ? the fact remains that the impact of the next few years will see a return to 80?s misery for many. If that?s scaremongering then I?ll be happy to be corrected in due course ? same time same place in 3 years? So we have unpopular, harsh policy ? in itself that?s almost doable, but to be prodded and told we are better off as a result is an insult

Iiiiiiiiit?s Friday It? a common refrain ? ?leftie liberals in headline grabbing missing the point ? just the same as Daily Mail but from the other angle!!? Like that angle doesn?t matter, an irrelevance Not all of the proposals are bad ? I?m certainly not jumping up and down and screaming and adopting a kneejerk stance But it?s nuts to suggest that the proposals will make people better off as Clegg claims "Across the country households will be better off,"? All of these people coming off benefits stand a chance of getting work when they are competing with the newly unemployed, recently skilled workforce do they? I mean all glib jibing aside, really? That is astonishingly optimistic

that much eh? wow, truly I am a mug for going to work every day when I could be living it up like that Huguenot's graph is very dramatic until you realise that even by 2000 that's still a third of women classed as poor. No definition of what constitutes "poverty" in that graph either And the welfare bill? Small beer compared to the amounts lost to tax avoidance. But far easier to belittle the poor eh? And they should get jobs should they? That?ll be interesting with the unemployment rate rising I?m not disagreeing with anyone who says there are pockets of society that have become welfare dependant, and it feeds on itself and that something should be done. But it?s not the case that the benefits systems exists solely to support those people ? they just provide critics with easy ammunition I?m sure the thread will decend into statistic waving, without ever once grasping what it means to be on the lower rungs (whether on benefit or working for poor salaries)

I'm trusting you will be a tad more interesting than capello, 'bout now

Before you get all offended Concita reneged your last post accused me of not being in touch with reality.

Blimey missus Ray Wilkins? Never heard of him mate

And yet this has worked for decades with more people on low incomes deciding to get that education they have partially funded. You start waving a large debt in front of them, in a time when jobs are scarce anyway, they will not even risk it and more feasibly end up in a minimum wage job

edrisi - if you're aiming for the moral high ground, probably best if you don't wish ill on people? That said you make some valid points. My intention is not to bully anyone, but it is very trying when someone just won't listen to a little bit of perspective and appears to delight in jumping at any crimes reported on here And you're correct, being burgled is horrible and makes one feel really shitty and it has happened to me so I'm not talking from some cloud cuckoo-land But when someone says "ooh another burglary - it appears to be getting worse!" and then several people follow up with "oh no I've just moved here and now I'm really worried", I'm not sure venting isn't a little bit selfish. Saying to people "be careful" should be a given if you live in London - do we need to be told it after every crime?

that locations wouldn't solve many people's travel problems i suspect

As someone who works for a bank I find it hard to reconcile the people around me moaning about their not-insignificant salaries, their forthcoming bonuses (?it?s in my contract!?) getting taxed and how they too would leave the country AND at the same time listen to these people pontificate on the latest headlines Firefighters? Fack em, get someone else to do their jobs. Tough times lads we all need to cut back. It?s only a contract. Get rewritten all the time mate! Students? Bunch of freeloaders Tube workers? D?you know how much these guys get paid?? I wouldn?t mind but everytime I go to a ticket office there?s always a queue!! (well duh!) Etc etc And these are the regular joe?s, not the ones paid obscene amounts ? but all of them working for companies that played a major part in the current financial crisis. No humility, no context, no thought ? just me, me, me. Ditto when people complain about jobs being outsourced or offshored ? ?bottom line mate? ? but you should hear them when it?s their own job affected. The lack of comprehension is astonishing Now other people who work at banks will say I?m stereotyping, and their colleagues aren?t like that, but I wouldn?t be so sure if you pushed them a bit

tension mounts... if someone doesn't get done soon I fear concita might burst when it does happen

This!

I'm not even sure what that even means How would you operate?

I mean Admin can?t even get a consensus going on this forum ? now try and extrapolate that to a whole country with competing interests and interpretations ? what political party is going to come out of that looking whiter than white Complaining they are all the same is a cop out. For New Labour?s faults they aren?t the same as the Tories. The Republicans in the US are not the same as the Democrats. Fox News is not the same as BBC news That doesn?t make who I choose perfect, and they will end up being bloodied and compromised but that doesn?t make them the same

I don't see how people can say "old labour" was "a vehicle for power with the > principle of looking after your own" did I miss a meeting - the NHS, previous education policies and minimum wage schemes to name a few - who introduced them then?

didn't Liverpool lose that same fixture last year? It's progress at least

If labour were reelected I would eat my hat The country sees this coalition as the best shot. If it were to vote again they would probably re-elect the tories as libdem voters would be too busy holding their noses. Not enough people will vote labour until (possibly at best) the next planned election If this coalition did fall apart because of LibDems non-coperation with the Tories (which is what it would be if they stood by their manifesto alone) then they would be in the wilderness Maybe not amongst lib-dem voters, but in the country at large their is some respect for them for understanding their position in this coalition and not using a tiny vote to scupper everything that the largest party attempts (even if I disagree with them)

and your conclusion from that is?

Sorry MM - I saw that as contradicting not agreeing with my point I do agree that the debate will be about the violence - that's just how the media works (and I say that with no hint of conspiracy theory, honestly) but if the police and government are satisifed simply with condemning the protest/riot then they will miss the point As an aside: I saw on Sky news last night a segment where the presenter was asking a reporter in astonishment how the policed planned this so badly - he said that here were 200+ police at the Chelsea v Fulham game (50000 football fans in local rivalry) and for the demonstration there was only.... (and at this point he was so astonished I expected him to say 20) 250 police in attendance! He thought that ludicrously low whereas I thought surely a sensible plan would have thought that overly high but on the safe side? I know that given yesterday's events there will be many more at future protests but i don't see how yesterday's events were a given

Sounds sensible in theory but I'm not convinced it's the only way to begin a change in policy I don't see it as the student's (or even opposition's) job to come up with the answers - it's enough to say "nope, we aren't going to stand for this, you're the government, go figure something else out" I agree this protest isn't going to affect the government in itself - but they would do well to heed the signs as they review their wider plans

I know I?m stretching myself to defend a party I didn?t vote for ? but If the alternative is for the LibDems to dig their heels in at the beginning of this coalition, surely the outcome is a collapse of government, probable calling of another election and then what, a fully elected Tories? That sounds like an awful lot of drama, cost, and drifting at a time when we could do without it, only to find ourselves back at square one

IIRC, the Nunhead forum only exists because Nunhead residents kept pestering Admin to set one up - so despite the overhead he did that for them - not his fault if nobody uses it So that leaves this particular thread - which is no way constitues a reasonable discussion about where that border should and shouldn't lay - it's mostly the deranged outpourings of a lonely individual And hadenuff Most people, when they suspect they are borderline EDF either contact Admin directly or respond to any actions with grace. But even the title of this thread says plenty about the OP - why anyone feels the need to give Admin a hard time about it is beyond me

I think we aree looking good. But I like your thinking

Oh please. What did anyone expect? First of all, they don't have power Secondly, by now you would think power entails a whole number of compromises. Whether it's labour in 97, obama in the us or the limited power thelibdems have.... It would appear its not as easy as it seems Huguenot makes some good points but as for mockney, im shocked. People have been saying that about the libdems for ever and he's surprised? Why? I didn't vote for them but i cant quite understand the kicking they are getting now