DuncanW

I'd always understood that smokers were a net burden on the state. This is the first thing I found on the net so don't consider it definitive proof, nonetheless illustrating the point. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7463690/Every-cigarette-smoked-costs-taxpayer-6.5p-think-tank-warns.html *Research conducted by Policy Exchange found found that while tax on tobacco raised ?10 billion a year for the Treasury, the annual cost of healthcare and other consequences of smoking totalled ?13.74 billion* Back on the subject of pubs, they are businesses that cater for what's wanted by the market. If there were that many people who'd actually spend much money in the that sort of place (no kids, plenty of smoking and swearing), some entrepreneurial soul(s) would open one up. But clearly the reverse is true. Pubs like that struggle to stay in business whereas the more modern version with a decent quality food offer, seems like a licence to print money when delivered properly.

"When SPACE Southwark were set up, the nodal point's location was never decided because the chosen provider would need to consult and listen to the community, as Charter are now doing. SPACE (who remember initiated the secondary school campaign) has always been about representing the community, and it was felt that a nodal point to the East, along with a second nodal point on the school might have been the fairest way of doing it, but the decision around admissions would always have been made by the provider after consultation." I had understood from the above in your OP that SPACE was in favour of moving the nodal point eastwards. And that SPACE is an organised group. What am I missing?

Trine - you began this thread with a call for unity. Then you set out your own stall and lay into those individuals or groups that don't agree with you. That doesn't make sense to me. You don't seem to have a problem with organised groups who have shown favour towards the eastern nodal point, but schools and councilors who are trying to promote the cause of their own local community make you feel sick. How perplexing?

I am against the nodal point proposal and agree strongly with NiceToMeetYou and London Mix?s posts. For the record, like LondonMix I live in a location whereby I think my children would gain admission either way so am not speaking from vested interest. I really do understand the concern and frustration that parents like Cola Bottle experience and it?s a big worry to think that your kids may not get into a school of one?s choice or one that is near to your home. But places at CSED will be finite, so surely if the nodal point system gives a child at that end of Friern Road a place, would that not be at the expense of a child who lives nearer to the school, but in the wrong direction? How would that be fair to that child? To be fair, I don?t believe the pro nodal point argument is driven by class. People just want the best for their own kids and there?s nothing wrong with that. But there is a strong link to class and to argue otherwise by suggesting ED and Camberwell & Peckham have a similar mix of demographics seems way off the mark to me. The problem is that middle-class parents are typically more engaged and active in campaigns such as this and make their arguments more skilfully. That?s fair enough, but should not mean their children get priority access to popular schools over children whose parents are not as articulate and engaged, don?t have a background in statistical analysis or policy research, don?t speak English that well, or who didn?t sign up for the campaign ? which I hadn?t realised conferred some sort of privileged stakeholder status/entitlement to a place, did I get that wrong?

James, my point was that there has been a move towards gentrification and corresponding shift in demographic. YOu're not arguing that's not the case surely?

Sorry Jeremy - I agree with you and was making the same argument in response to something Uncle Glen had said further up he thread. Not very clearly perhaps...

If the main factor in London returning more Labour MPs is self-interest then please could you explain this to me: Our corner of se London has seen significant gentrification over the last 5-10 years, so one would assume a demographic shift in the electorate towards the better off. Yet Camberwell & Peckham, and Dulwich & West Norwood returned Labour MPs with an increased share of the vote and Bermondsey and Old Southwark voted in a new Labour MP. How does that work?

Good luck to them - obvs! It certainly looks like a bold venture...

Tarot - are you worried it's going to make you go gay? I'd stop watching them. I understand a strong satellite pointed in the right direction can pick up Iranian TV if that's more your thing.

From my experience, Howdens only deal with trade, so you won't get a price from them. If builders want to know what kitchen, they will know what's involved with Howdens as they are all the same carcassing I think. Some other kitchen types do require more involved fitting. Prices: depends on how many units obvs and there is a range of styles so you won't know a final figure until you're a bit further down the line. I would say the ?8k figure is a lot closer to where you'll end up than the ?18k. They do have a showroom in ED tho that is open to the public and I believe open on Saturday mornings.

Jeremy - what militant cyclist nonsense?

Sema has good chips Would be surprised if anyone would be doing chips cooked in beef dripping - vegetarian/pescatarian customers wouldn't like it.

Granted, the forum would be quite dull if people didn't disagree with each other. But I don't really understand starting a thread with an implied, then later stated, point of view, finding out that virtually no-one agrees with you, and then moaning that the EDF isn't representative of broader views in the area. Did I miss something?

As a straight comparison, I think that the Standard is less right-wing now under it's current ownership than the previous. Not that that is saying much!

For what it's worth, we were living in Ulverscroft Road up until just over a year ago. We would probably have moved sooner or later but as my wife and I both cycle to work and we have young kids (equals buggies, scooters, etc) the lack of space for bikes was absolutely the key factor that motivated us to start looking for somewhere new to live. Houses in Ulverscroft don't have enough space out front for a bike locker and we could barely get in and out of the house. So I would have gladly welcomed one of these when we lived there. And I would have been ever so careful not make too much noise opening and closing it, just like I am with the one I have now on my own property which is more or less directly under my neighbour's window.

MadMum - I thought you were hoping for Charter 2 as the thought of leaving the area makes you shudder?

Vincent van Gogh used to live there... Whether you like it or not - it's pretty hard to stop an area changing economically, in either direction. The proposed redevelopment of the arches area looks quite shoddy though - isn't it more of a planning issue than a gentrification issue?

Did anyone else see this last night? The bride was hoping for the local church in rural Lincolnshire, instead she got the roof of the Bussey Building in Peckham. It seemed like everyone had a good time...

Schools might be paid per pupil, but where do you think that extra money would come from? Where on earth do you get your ideas from about parents' motivations for sending their kids to private schools? To me it just seems like inverted snobbery. Which is just snobbery. Do you also think these people all have gold taps on their baths? In my mind, private education doesn't win on every count but it has some clear benefits. Invariably the facilities are better and the class sizes are smaller meaning they get more input from the teaching staff. And yes, there is going to be a difference in intake and some parents will understandably see value in their child being educated in a cohort where the ability levels are higher and the pupils and parents are highly motivated. I?m not entirely unsympathetic to the view that private schools are not a wholly good thing for society. I get that. But I can?t get past the fact that we live in a free country and I really don?t think it would be right to say to people who have already paid their taxes and made their contribution to the state system, that they can?t use their own money in the way that they see best and pay for their own children?s education again. The level of harm done by the private system just doesn?t merit that sort of limitation on other people?s rights to do what they choose with their own money. The practicalities wouldn?t work either; the private system would just move offshore, to Ireland for example. And what about home-schooling, would you outlaw that as well?

Really it should be Le Moribond by Jacques Brel as Terry Jacks was just a blow-in

Re: the sibling rule, this is just a thought that comes to mind, but what about invalidating it if a family move address? Stay put and you get your sibling place even if the catchment changes, but if you move all bets are off.

Otta - I think that's a bit harsh! It's by no means a new thing that people move into certain locales to be in catchment areas for favoured schools. And it's certainly nothing new that parents will try and do the best they can for their offspring. I think all admissions criteria have their flaws and for distanced-based, the mobility of the better off is the obvious one. But I wouldn't demonise parents who are playing by the rules, just because you don't like the rules. ie. don't hate the player...

Well done to all the staff at Bessemer!! @Landsberger - it's only recently expanded to 3 form intake. Further up the school, it is undersubscribed, so not sure there's much of a case for a 4 form entry??

Or www.misanthropy.com JimH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Jeremy I agree with you 100% > > Seriously Blah Blah this is a post about an > injured fox in Dulwich so you might want to put > your point across in a different forum > > Try: > > http://vegtalk.org/animal-rights/ > http://www.animalconcerns.org/

I just walked past that hoarding. It's naff, yep! Can't argue with that. But really worth getting your self all worked up about? :)