Sephiroth

Basically it needs every living citizen who thinks leaving in any capacity will leave us worse off to be more vocal in saying so. The more people who do that the more the window shifts to it being possible Pretending there is some compromise with insanity is no good to anyone

For what it?s worth, I remain extremely pessimistic Firstly - no deal is still the default. Johnson still has to request and eu still have to agree to any extension. If I was then I would wonder ?why bother? We said don?t waste the time 6 months ago but the state of ye!? Secondly, everyone rah rahing about last night but that was all about democratic process, and included many many non-remainers. Leaving with some imaginary beneficial deal is still the most many people are hoping for.

Using language like ?fixated on? is pretty weird - it?s the path of solution in other countries. Other countries which have survived such crazy ideas But using words like compromise makes you feel warm and cosy like you are the sensible one when all it means is you haven?t understood the problem. The problem is still the lie that the people can just leave the eu with no major problem. And that can?t happen no matter how much pretending you do There are no easy solutions but I?ve already outlined mine. Remaining is the best option as it immediately stops the clock ticking. There is then no external pressure. All we have to deal with are angry leaver voters. But and here?s the thing. They will remain angry if we leave with a deal, with no deal or remain. So we have to deal with them no matter what I would revoke now and skip referendum given the time constraints. I would tell Leavers the idea isn?t abandoned but before we can address leaving again they have to organise, define what kind of shape leave they want and agree on it. Then that could feasibly be out to a referendum at a future date But that?s just too logical. So proceed as you see fit. No deal, deal a la may - whatever. But listening to Brits butch about it for years to come with severely diminished rights and powers , you can be the one reminding everyone ?but it was a compromise!!!!?

If you think mays deal, where the uk accepts eu rules but has no say in them, will placate leavers and heal wounds you are even more deluded than I already think you are

If mays deal passed it would have made everyone worse off and pleased no one I know loads of people are seeing it as some sort of panacea but we would have left, no way back in and be worse off with endless finger pointing and blame doing the rounds. Mays deal is the answer to nothing (and if is resurrected and finally passed as a compromise, you can bookmark this post) It?s entirely lazy thinking and indicative of this whole process - pretending only politicians didn?t want mays deal forgets entirely that most people didn?t want it either. Just like when this entire debacle is finished you won?t find anyone who admits to voting to leave https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2018/12/07/what-is-in-theresa-may-s-brexit-deal-and-why-is-it-so-unpopular

By your own words are you damned

I think by now most people who know me know my feelings on the tories But I wanted to keep the tone general as both parties are as bad as each other. I think a brexit under Corbyn government will be a total disaster and will ruin labour for generations. And that saddens me But do I think even that disaster would be better than allowing this Tory government to continue? Yes yes I do. But that?s FPTP for you. Uk f@@@ked that referendum as well

I would agree with some of that Hems, but I?ll give my version (any instance of the word ?you? should not be aimed at you Hems) If someone (anyone) gives you a dumb binary choice, don?t vote for the dumb one (no matter who they or you are). If they choose the dumb option then it really really is on them - not anyone else. If you really want to leave the eu, formulate a pragmatic version of how that would work over 5-10 years, stop calling the people you need deals with the enemy and then put that to a vote careful what you wish for. If you keep voting in a rag tag Tory governments then the opposition will mutate to find the antidote If a country constantly derides its politicians, clever people will swerve being them and we end up with career dullards and worse Looking at other countries, nowhere is perfect. But the countries that have some kind of bond between electorate and politicians work best. Taking too much power from politicians doesn?t work too well (I?m open to being corrected) Spending a week in another eu country this past week has been a blessed relief. They don?t hold their politicians in high regard but they also know they can?t deliver the undeliverable/undesirable. Only the uk thinks this thing can and should be done - as long as it continues to think this way then it will continue to generate nothing but chaos and anger and impotent rage

Lou quoting a government blog from a couple of weeks ago. Just after Johnson set about penalising and firing anyone who said anything negative about Brexit. But that?s a valid source apparently. What do farmers have to say? https://www.fginsight.com/news/news/defra-under-fire-from-british-farmers-for-disappointing-brexit-leaflet-92405

It would help if Louisa backed up her fantastical statements with references. Maybe it?s her area of her expertise. Or maybe she is simply paraphrasing Patrick bleedin Minford

A) Louisa and her posts have very little to do with facts B) no one is say predictions are the same as facts. What I am saying is that the serious predictions about the consequences of a damaging Brexit are not random plucks out of the air but based upon people whose job it is to know. This doesn?t mean they will happen. They could very well be wrong. But as already discussed the consequences of them being right v wrong are very different

Even if the eu was to tolerate an open border it?s the uk that?s having the hissy fit about control of its borders Eu citizens can freely flow into the uk across this non existent border and what? The media and leavers won?t mind? Seems like a ridiculous risk and price to pay for zero gain and a lot of loss

Telling the eu and wto to do one is quite the statesmanlike gambit for a country on its knees in dire need of a trade deal. And doesn?t lou?s ?Plan? require Ireland to join in with the madness?

As for lou?s WTO fantasies, what can you even say? She has the f@@@ing GALL to say we are making stuff up and she comes out with this nonsense. Where does she get such ideas? Where?

Keano. You can join thecat Read what I said at 9:46 I had only pointed out what would happen if predictions came true. I said if they didn?t come true I would be embarrassed. But if they do some true then I won?t be making anything up If those predictions (including governments own) come true. People. Will. Die And if you response to that is ?I won?t even be embarrassed? then yes you are a sociopath

Or is the body responsible for delivering foods just ?conjecture? as well? Are they likely to know more about how food gets to our table? Or do you know more? https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/goves-claim-fresh-food-supplies-unaffected-by-no-deal-brexit-categorically-untrue_uk_5d6bb55ce4b0cdfe05719d77

government reports, a wide array of economic forecasts, views of other countries - not conjecture Lou It might comfort you to chuckle into your wine and pretend you know better. But as you learned yourself - you know jack on this and you got it wrong before. If I were you I would think maybe you are wrong again Government reports. Supposedly ?worst case scenario?. But shouldn?t even be possible https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/uk-leaked-no-deal-brexit-plan-operation-yellowhammer-4771216-Aug2019/%3famp=1

I can make statements like that because I pointed you to available evidence, which does forecast these things, and said if they come true it would be bad And you basically said yeah but it?s worth it I?m not misrepresenting you. I said if it was wrong I would be embarrassed. You said if you were wrong about these forecasts you wouldn?t even be embarrassed.

prepared to put people through this for decades? People will die. Be it because of resumption of the troubles. Or food/medicine shortages And you won?t even be embarrassed? You should be prosecuted

There is a reason Gove and co keep using the phrase ?people will get the food they need?

Cat. I?m expressing more than my views - they are a combination of government forecasts, most economists and other countries and anyone with a reasonably intelligent view of how this would pan out But of course I could be wrong. And how embarrassed will I be then? I?ll be mortified but relieved. Ah but if you are wrong? Well then, that?s a different story isn?t it? Your embarrassment won?t be enough to account for the problems we face

Lou. You can?t speak for most leave voters but if you were representative and most voters thought like you themnit goes some way to explaining why remainers say you didn?t know what you?re were voting for - because that?s literally what you are saying You can?t just cry liberal London elite at everything you don?t like. The governments own internal papers paint a very very very bad picture (of a country that lest we forget, lost it?s shit when kfc ran out of chicken) You continue to wave everything away just so you can say in the future ?but no one was talking about that then?. You will back up any half arsed Hitler/eu garbage but faced with actual reality and probability of. I deal, you don?t examine your record in this and think ?maybe I, Louisa, don?t know what I?m talking about sometimes?

I love Lou telling everyone to calm down having admitted she hadnt the first f@@@ing clue what she was on about in the referendum. Loads of leave voters were concerned about deals Lou. They were repeatedly reassured by leave leaders like Hannan telling them ?absolutely no one is talking about leaving the single market? and they would have voted accordingly Many of them have changed their minds and it?s democratic to allow them to express that. Maybe some remainers would now vote leave - but anyone pretending that THIS is what 51.x percent of the population voted for is full of shit The governments own internal forecasts are not simply a ?rocky road?. They spell chaos for the country And as jenny and others have said, all it does is leave you back needing to negotiate a deal. And then what? Oh then you will blame others again - never ever accepting this is all on you for voting leave and not seeking ratification

Uncle glen Perhaps you could match up the tradespeople with all of the people I know who want to hire tradespeople butvare constantly good job is too small or they are booked out for 6 months

Foxy proving a) he can use a search engine and b) draw all the wrong conclusions whilst cluelessly staying ?i Rest my case? How very brexit