intexasatthe moment

The bit about scholarships is here I think Scholarships: According to the selection criteria, 15% of the intake must include children awarded a scholarship. But more than this figure are initially offered scholarships. This is not 'manipulation' or a 'cynical ploy'. They have to do it this way because there's a good chance that not every one in this position would take up a place at the school, even if it was offered (as in the case of gwod on this thread). So they have no choice but to award more than that 15% figure. I've spent a long time looking but I can't see any advice on how they decide who to offer the place to if a scholarship person drops out .

After looked after children ,siblings ,and I presume children with statements ,priority is given according to how close you live to the school" Which school are you referring to intexas? Dorothy - sorry ,all getting a bit confusing ,that remark was in reply to someone asking about The Charter's catchement area .

Mmm , Kingsdale's site ,under Admissions says Please refer to scholarship oversubscription criteria for more information but I couldn't find the details . Maybe it's available on request ?

Mrs D as someone who has also opposed buiding works /development next to me ,you have my sympathies that people are treating you so suspiciously . I don't think that everyone who registers and expresses a view about something is always someone to be viewed suspiciously .

I'm not sure I understand either - I guess it means that you're tested and found to be scholorship material and then ,once the intake is divided into 3 bands ,the scholorship people get a place and don't have to be selected by lottery ? I've not looked at Kingsdale's explanation of how they deal with oversubscription for scholorships - will look later when I have time .

My reading of Kingsdale's admission policy is that they divide the intake into 3 ability bands and then allocate places by giving priority to SEN , looked after children , scholorships,and siblings and then allocate remainder by lottery . I think it says that 15% of places are scholorships . Is that selection ? Perhaps I'm not getting it . Wonder ,by the way , how many scholorship places go to people in the 2 lower ability bands ? When you say new government standards ,do you mean Gove's baccalaureate thing ? I think lots of really good schools seem to have done poorly if you judge them by how many passes in a random selection of subjects ( which they didn't know they had to offer to pass Gove's retrospective test ) they got . I think it's great Kingsdale have improved ,it's geographical position has always worked against it in the past .

After looked after children ,siblings ,and I presume children with statements ,priority is given according to how close you live to the school . How close you need to be to get in will vary according to who else has applied so the catchment area will vary from year to year .

Well put Dorothy ,still suffering affects of failing ( ie didn't lie to get into Charter ) to get a place at a good local secondary school here .

lukedaisy - Waverley became a Harris Academy in 2006 and has been improving since then . Kingsdale went into special measures in 1996 and Steve Morrison - the headteacher - joined in 1998 since when he's transformed the school which has also undergone a major refurb . http://www.dulwichsociety.com/2010-autumn/560-kingsdale-foundation-school

Yes I agree ,Charter sounds fantastic and ,like Kingsdale was a terrible school ( in it's previous existence as William Penn ) that no local people wanted to send their children to . Do you think it's catchement area is comparable though ? I feel it's in quite a uniformly middle class area where parents might be tempted to go private but would try state . Kingsdale has always seemed out on a limb to me ,close to upper middle class households ( well ,even more expensive houses than those near Charter ) where parents more likely to go private and the Kingsdale estate . I don't think Kingsdale is guilty of jiggery -pokery at all ,just trying to get a balanced intake .

Kingsdale is a Foundation school and can therefore set its own admissions criteria - just like all the secondary schools in Southwark . They are all Academies ,Faith or Foundation schools and they can all decide their own admissions policies . In line with Southwark's and national guidance - which as you can see from what we have in Southwark allows for plenty of variation . If they want to change them they can do ,after consultation .Which ,in my experience ,if you're a parent ,means no more than informing you about what they intend to do . I think admissions policies that give priority to geographical location of applicant are very tricky . Kingsdale's location and that policy meant that for years it had a very strange intake ,not at all representative of a cross section of society . I think Kingsdale's admission policy which if I understand it correctly ( banding ,low percentage of scholorships ,lottery etc ) is really hard on parents and children applying for the school ,but is a pragmatic solution . Though it must make appealing and managing a waiting list very difficult . It's hard to understand it as a parent and hard to know how it could be monitored . Though as I've said before ,I find banding hard to get my head round . Is it banding of the particular group that applied in the year or banding related to some national or local scoring ? If a place becomes vacant because someone in band 1 has dropped out can it only be offered to someone whose scores for banding would make them a band 1 person ? I expect it's all perfectly clear to those with bigger brains than me . But it does seem to me to be a very complex situation where so many schools can all have such different admissions policies. I really don't know the answer - good schools for all doesn't seem to happen . Maybe we're getting there ?

Mmm ,have a look here at what the lovely mapping people at Southwark have so kindly put on line for us all http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200212/egovernment/1776/old_maps_of_southwark/1

Sorry to repeat old concerns - this has all been discussed before I know . I just find the provision and development of secondary schools in this area of great interest .

Comments from report re space are interesting ,especially the second comment which gives the impression that a rethink is under way regarding total numbers . The space and facilities are attractive and of a high quality although outside recreational space, while adequate for the current number of students, is limited on the site. and Managers are rightly exploring what the future numbers of students should be in view of the small site If the space is adequate with only 2 years on site ,what will it be when the school has 11 years plus a sixth form ?

I can't help feeling that all schools should have the same admissions polcies - tricky though because location can have a massive impact . Which makes me think that banding ( but not banding related to national scores ) and lotteries are the way to go . It's a complex area - and at the moment one which causes huge stress for all involved .

Renata - thanks for link ,which I see specifies GCSE passes ,so presumably no GSCE exam equivalents . Does indeed look like a success story - well done East Dulwich Girls ! Thanks also for details as to how allocations work . Not sure I can quite follow it - my lack of brain power ,not your clarity ,to blame I think. Am I right in thinking distance from school doesn't come into play for lots of secondary schools ? It's the banding that always confuses me ,surely if a school is looking for 10 children to fill the top ability band then they may have to draw from a bigger geographical area than the one necessary to provide the more average ,middle bands . So your distance from school would be less important than which band you fall into ,unless its Kingsdale which uses bands and a lottery where I suppose distance doesn't matter at all . Although Charter take distance into account ,don't they ?

they meet at 7:00 to get there at 7:30 to make sure they are not late for 8:15. If that's really what's happening - rather than say meeting up before going to a breakfast club - that's insane .

Renata ,sorry to have 2 subjects going on here - school improvement and secondary school admissions - but is there any way of a break down of the GCSE figures quoted above ,refering to East Dulwich Harris Girls ? Just wondering about the exams actually taken to achieve the 90% figure . How many were GCSEs and how ,many were other GCSE equivalent exams ?

I'm sure that there are others who can give more specific advice but my experience of appeals is that ,to be succesful ,you have to show either that the admissions process has been incorrectly applied or that your child has some exceptional need ( social,medical ) to go to a particular school . This site is helpful http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/ Good luck .

nunheadmum - most secondary schools offer the same curriculum ,nonwithstanding any specialist status . I think the specialist status is a hangover from a few years ago when schools could access a bit of extra funding if they applied for this ( I'm sure someone on here will know more about this ) I think some schools that aren't vey popular /struggling to climb up the league tables do offer less academic exams alongside the traditional GCSE's . And I think such schools focus their efforts on those students who are struggling to achieve the magic C grade and that this is at the expense of children who can get a C but would benefit from extra support etc to get a B . So maybe don't stretch the just above average student enough . Don't know if that helps .

mrrafs ,just posting to offer sympathies . I know from experience how awful this is . Hope Renata can offer support and help.

What Help-Ma-Boab said .

I'm not an Earl Grey fan but drink other loose leaf tea from The Tea House in Neal St ,Convent Garden . You can do mail order ,but a bit expensive ... http://www.covent-garden.co.uk/SITES/theteahouse/

Well if the school have advised his mum to " work on his concentration and.. " at home ,perhaps she should ask them for techniques ?

Hear hear Pugwash .