intexasatthe moment

Do remind me James who initially replaced Southwark ? Some building firm wasn't it ? And how did they do ? Thank goodness the Lib Dems saved us . All such short term plans and views . Like now ,people are so anxious for a secondary school ( to serve local children ) that they'll pass over the small print of the provision in the name of " pragmatism " . But if the details aren't right 10 years down the line there will be more problems . So many people are anxious not to have another Harris school one wonders how we ended up with so many . Oh yes ,politics and spin . I bet that helped .

Simone I don't know what role the steering group has ,would be interesting to know what it considers it's remit to be . Is that something you could tell us ? Would members for example need to have some familarity with the Admissions Code or would this not be considered to be necessary on the basis that the sponsor would act in accordance with it ?

Well as you say the admissions policy will be up to the sponsor to determine . It does worry me that admissions policies are not clear ( as the law requires them to be ) and that detail is not given ,creating a confusing and opaque situation . Kingsdale holds the prize I think for the least clear policy ,especially for people hoping to get in after the first round of admissions . Oh well ,we are where we are . Loads of schools all doing there own thing ,determining their own admissions policies ,the LA playing no definitive role - think of all those upheld appeals that challenged The Charter Schools definition of a safe walking distance and the legal challenge had to be mounted by individuals with no support from Southwark . All with the aim of climbing those league tables .

The point I'm making is that banding on its own and without geographical elements added in ,like Bacons College for example won't ensure that places go to local people . Harris give very little detail about their banding system - for example it would be interesting to know whether they are dividing up that years intake into 9 equal bands or whether the higher bands take a greater number with the individual bands being unequal in size . Dividing up a nos of people into equal size bands is what you are referring to I think but there are different types of banding . "Banding 1.25 Pupil ability banding is a permitted form of selection used by some admission authorities to ensure that the intake for a school includes a proportionate spread of children of different abilities. Banding can be used to produce an intake that is representative of: a) the full range of ability of applicants for the school(s); b) the range of ability of children in the local area; or c) the national ability range. " Schools Admissions Code D of E

I think there is more than a slight difference between banding an existing discrete group and banding used to ensure that each cohort contains a specific range of abilities . The former is simply dividing up an exiting group into 5 ( or whatever ) the latter is seeking applicants to fill bands .

James no I'm not mixing banding with popularity. It's obvious that if you have ability bands that need to filled you are seeking to offer places to non average ability children . Both below and above average .Because you are looking for non average children you have to cast your net further afield .

James without some geographical restriction ( inner and outer areas for example ) banding widens the geographical area as average candidates living near the school face competition from those below and above average who are offered places to ensure a mixed intake . You can see this clearly in the distances some of the pupils at ED boys travel to get to the school .

"Any new school is likely to have a much larger admissions footprint if distance based " but the Charter has a distance based footprint ,as do most primary schools ,and has a small admissions footprint . The size of the footprint is determined by the popularity of the school .Popular school = small admissions footprint . Or have I totally misunderstood the sentence James ?

Totally agree with your posts DenmotherSmith ,especially re parents cheating to get into a school . A lotterry within a limited geograpgical area wpould overcome this . Will be interesting to learn more about how the admissions policy is determined .

James ,bearing in mind that a new school is funded by all taxpayers and is for the whole community ( and future community ) I'm interested to know what mechanisms will be used by the steering group to take the interests of that community into account . Can you advise ?

Another point is that schools will do all they can to move up the league tables . If that means manipulating the admissions system to achieve a catchment with a greater percentage of middle class households by excluding those living on a council estate then that'll be done . After all few have the motivation , energy and time to challenge them . Certainly not the LA . It seems that all that matters is climbing those pesky league tables ,not a well rounded education for all .

They weren't forced to change their admissions policy . They were told by the Schools Adjudicator to adhere to their published admissions policy ie safe walking distance .

Anyone tried pushing someone in a wheelchair along a " pavement " which has a number of dropped curbs ? No ? Well it's a pain in the arse trying to counteract the ( often steep ) camber . Oh well ,wheelchairs and their pushers not important in the scheme of things .

Yes good points . I think Kingsdale especially were clever in fine tuning their admissions policy to overcome their geographical position . And also by the confusing scholarship system . Perhaps it's a good thing that individual schools can tailor their admissions to cope with the specific circumstances of the school . Though I feel the competition between schools is more harmful - leading to ever more creative ways to manipulate the system so that statistics look good - than good .

Those parents who are concerned about the prospect of their children travelling to far away places like Catford ,Westminster etc and are looking for a local school that caters for local children need to think about the admissions policy of the " provider " . And they need to think about the implications of schools next to eachother having different admissions policies . If one school always ensures that their pupils' abilities reflect the national average and ensure that every intake includes a number of the brightest children in the borough then their results should always achieve at least the equivalent of other schools . And to have a head start in climbing those league tables and likely to climb higher than a school whose admissions policy means that they draw from a small geographical area . Such issues are what you get from a fragmented education system run by various " providers " for whom competition has become an overriding feature . Harris schools who have a banding system can take pupils from far and wide to fill their school with cohorts that reflect the national average range of abilities . The 63 bus I was on the other day had many Harris boys travelling well past the Elephant , a distance which it seems many parents regard as unacceptable for their children to travel . So if you want a local school taking it's pupils from the immediate geographical area then you might want to think not only about which " provider " you are opting for but the admissions policy they operate . And also whether you mind if that policy has the potential to detrimentally affect the schools position in the league tables . And the trend for Academies to develop all through schooling from primary age also gives pause for thought . How long before primary school age children are travelling on buses to schools where the " provider " wants to ensure an intake that will give them a head start in the league tables ? Obvious stuff I know and I'm probably teaching grandmothers to suck eggs . So apologies if I'm labouring stuff that goes without saying .

What I don't understand about Rye Lane is why the pavement surfaces of the main drag and the side roads can't be resurfaced and maintained to the same high standards as the shopping area on Lordship Lane . Anyone know the answer ?

TPO'd trees can be pruned/reduced in height ,details to Southwark and permission needs to be obtained.

James , I'm sure you have more experience of decision making on this scale than i do - what would your suggestions be as to how the steering group come to a decision ?

James how will the parents on the steering committee reach their decision regarding choice of manager/"sponsor " ? ( I believe the provider is the tax payer isn't it ? )

The Rose ,Forest Hill Rd ? http://uk.local.yahoo.com/London/SE23_1/Greater_London/Public_Houses/2045392611-e-26351379.html

On this point - whether James had made it clear if the proposed school was to be a Harris one ,James said " For clarity we have sufficient highly performing Harris Schools in the area. The idea of free schools is to bring choice but our application will also be about bringing more capacity. Hopefully this is clear enough. "

Thanks TE . I hate this fragmented ,competitive education system . See little good coming from it and much that is bad . And much ,to use the words of my son's school's sponsor ( now a Lord and a mover and shaker in current government as Education minister ,one with his own curriculum think tank " inspired " by E D Hirsch and his knowledge/content rich education system ) that equals a " cash flow ".

we do,we do . feel quite excited . well very excited actually !

Oh red devil that's so helpful ,just what I was looking for . Thank you so much .

Thanks Red Devil - I have seen the trimetals ones ( and actually don't consider them that expensive for what you get and compared to cost and distress of loosing bike ) just wondered if there others . What I wonder is how easy it will be to get one bike out if there is another bike in front of it - we dont go out on our bikes together and I can imagine having to lift one up and over the other might be tricky . When one is old and a bit creaky like me . Sadly locking and covering bike still leaves them open to vandalism so feel will have to go with store . I cant imagine they need planning permission ,but guess a phone call would clarify .