citizenED

This is up for a week Saturday so check your diaries....

Cheerio. Sad that it's gone out of fashion. The only person I know who says it is, er, me. Shameful

"Going forwards..." Government Ministers and BBC Correspondents are using this term!

I nominate not just a film or a programme but a whole channel: True Movies (crap they may be, but they all start with child abduction or some such like) Book: "The Little Friend" by Donna Tart. About the death of a child.

We drove past it on our way back from a day out - looked busy and fun. Might take my little one down there tomorrow: take a black bag and clean up the mess if he's willing.

Well I haven't read that Sean, but I read that it was good and also that "...everyone has read it...." It also falls into Rosie's frothy category.

Quids, self-appointed regulator of this thread. Pah! I reinstate Matt Johnson and give you Guy Garvey.

"Pictures at an Exhibition" by Philip Gale. I'll count it as marginally frothy since it got a recommendation from Ricard et Jude - but in all honesty it is pretty serious tale. So cleverly plotted and full of great characters.

Surely Quids they are fine on girls, unless you can see them. Love and Hate across the knuckles, surely count.

Morrisey Matt Johnson (The The) Guy Garvey

Scousers unite!

Yes, what was he thinking! Torres must have had a few choice expletives for him.

The World Cup that provided the resurgence of South American football has served up a European Final.

Next time you want a thread to die a death, Marmora Man, please post to let us know - for since you did this thread has has come back to life with some well measured points made. Like a lot the best threads on here it is tantalisingly balanced between the general and the particular - people pulling it back to the specific rights and wrongs of the Schonrock decision whilst others expand it out towards broader social points about parenting. Can we yet put to bed the notion, made so forcefully yesterday, that these parents are actually negligent? We have had a parent with kids at the same school tell us that this arrangement has been going on all year. Is that long enough for people to believe that these two children are competent enough to make the journey safely. How long would it take for you to be convinced? DaveR makes this point "I think this thread, as it has developed, is about quite a few things, but fundamentally, surely, it's about at what point a parent's decision about how they raise their child is challenged by the state, and on what basis." I agree but would add that it is also about at what point a parent's decision about how to raise their child is challenged by other parents. The creeping over-supervision of kids has, I suspect, progressed incrementally every time that one parent criticises the "free-range" techniques of another. It is the "I told you so" mentality that chips away at the confidence of mothers (in particular) so they feel less inclined to allow their children to take risks. I have to admit my wish that the actions of the Schonrocks might at least give some others the resolve to follow their instincts and allow their (slightly older) youngsters to walk unaccompanied to their (closer)schools .

Have to admit that David does talk down to Keef. That's the problem with being 6'5".

I saw this lot, Breakestra, at the Jazz Cafe in Camden on Saturday. Guitar, Bass, Synth + percussion, trumpet, Sax, female singer and a Sam L Jackson-like rapper. Absolutely-freaking-brilliant. Didn't stop dancing.

They look like they'd go nicely with your square plates *Bob*

Keef - to me The Lounge is the "Main" section, main as in most important. Admin Might be God-like, but when that drop down list was drawn up it's all arse over tits.

Snowboarder - just make friends with people with fab gardens. That's what we do!

A couple of pages ago I suggested that a few people on here need to take a step back before hitting "post message". Perhaps they also need to take a few deep breaths and count to 10.

Supergolden, look at it this way. You are having a baby person, a new little personality, with all their habits and characteristics. When you look into your little male baby's eyes for the first time your love will gush forth and all your worries about gender will evaporate. You'll have a gorgeous little boy. ...so you are being slightly soppy.

I don't, for a moment, imagine that the Schonrock's children are the only Primary age children going to school unaccompanied. I think, on the whole, this is balanced. Just some people needing to take that step back before they post. Please.

Thanks for those last two posts Ann and Iaam. I love living in East Dulwich and bringing up our two little ones here. Where do I start on the reasons why? Dulwich park is 5 mins from my front door. Once or twice a week I come home from work, scoop up the kids and dash to the park. In this recent weather it's been wonderful. Then we also have Peckham Rye Park and Common 20 minutes walk away, Horniman Triangle 20 mins away and Lordship Lane. I can walk in any direction from my place and we get somewhere lovley. I hardly ever bundle the kids in the car. The Southbank is a bus ride away, as are many of the other attractions of London. Culture is everywhere. World Music festival (free) at the Horniman on Sunday for example. Our older one goes to the good local school, five minutes away. Through this we've met loads of lovely other mums and dads. Have built up a great social network through Mum-baby groups, school and this Forum. Is there one like this in Surrey? A really important reason that I like living in ED/London is the racial/cultural mix. Even though we live in a culturally diverse country I am always shocked at the short distance you have to move out of London to lose this. My brother moved from North West London to Hertfordshire when they had a kid. In their son's (nice) Primary there is one black child. In his local newsagents there are piles of Daily Mails and Telegraphs. In ours there are always three piles of The Guardian. Ann, I am so glad that you posted. I hope that we, like you, stay in ED and bring up our boys as savvy Londoners who are glad we stayed.

For those of you who are getting apoplectic over the Schonrocks decision, again try this. Set an age, 5, 8, or whatever, and then say that before that age kids must not be sent to school unchaperoned, but after that age they must travel to school unchaperoned. How would you feel if a bunch of other people were telling you that you must send your kids to school on their own? The Schonrocks have evidently made a balanced decision that it is not only safe but also good for their kids to go to school on their own and they get these quite hurtful accusations of child neglect. I'd say let more people be brave enough to make a similar decision for their (slightly older) kids and perhaps we'd soon have all the evidence we need to say that it really is safe for kids to walk to school alone and/or accompanied by their peers and/or part way accompanied by the carers of other children.

I think many people who are supportive of these parent's decision are so but with a couple of misgivings - personally I wish the kids were both a couple of years older and that the journey was a little shorter so that they could walk it. Having said that I think that the whole idea of kids walking to school unsupervised feels right and, in principle, I happily support it.