citizenED

Oh, how exotic it was when a victim on "Jim'll Fix It" had, wait for it, sausage and marmalade sandwiches served to him at the Ritz. Well, stuck in my mind, anyhow.

Welcome back to SAWS, Jah. In your case that's the Sick At Work Society. Hope you get ill again soon.

Going in to check on my two little ones, last thing at night, when they are sleeping: That has got to be one of the very best feelings in the world. One of a hundred and one other unique and special sensations that comes of looking after youngsters. Interesting to read the recent posts of CWALD and TT - people with older children. When we were thinking of starting a family I always looked at it as if we were bringing people rather than kids into the world. Puts it into a different perspective. The exhilaration and fear having babies to care for countered by the knowledge of being the genesis of another personality or three let loose in the world. To be honest I was never starry eyed about having kids. Bit indifferent really. Had my life, my love, my career. If they came, imagined I would only come into my own when they were young adults and I could discuss books, films and art with them. And then they came, and boy, am I ever starry-eyed now. A complete and utter sap. Not ashamed to say that I completely adore them.

C'mon shoshntosh, having kids is not the the best thing ever..it's the bestest thing ever.

PGC, was it this one? Old Adverts. For some reason, the existence of that thread stayed in my mind.

You should be a bit more careful about who you sleep with then, HonaloochieB!

Come, James. A joke? Are you sure? Do you know Ms B? You basically implied that she was shagging her colleagues to get on in her line of work. Very noble. How do you know that the guys who shouted at you across the platform two years ago where not calling you and your chum a f****t "for a joke". Well, obviously, they weren't which makes your comment even stranger, considering that they were evidently unreconstructed youth out to cause bother on the street and you are a thoughtful man conversting on a friendly internet forum.

1st August Keef - as is written in the first book of St. Georgia of Easterlidge.

Note to self: next time I want to slander someone, just place a winky smiley at the end and all will be fine. Or call myself "Bob" and guarantee I'm being ironic. James, fella - Are you really sure you wanted to make that last comment about a woman you don't know, throwaway sexist/homophobic/racist comments being not much to your liking?

What about the "cracking Little Boozer" that is being opened where Page 2 was? Otherwise Gowlett or Plough.

Gosh, those people used to live just accross the road from me. Lucy had a cool Fiat 500. They were the only three car couple I've ever known. Good luck to them If I ever move from ED I'd like to think it would be for somewhere up town.

I'll be up for it again. Early August would be fine with us. I'll bring a frisbie. Thanks to Azul for being the social secretary this year. It was a strain organising such a huge event last year, all that co-ordinating and hosting took it's toll. btw Sean, CWALD was there too with beau and daughter, and Hannibal, (the Rotweiller?) who ate some of your impressive chicken!

To be honest, I think you made the Barry Barry promise at about 10.01pm, Franki. Still qualifies under Brendan's rules, so you are still off the hook. Andrew was there, and he took photos - feel sorry for anyone he snapped after 10pm; the rule applies to photography as well as conversation.

Makes notes to look out for "In Bruges", "Tell NO One" and "Number 23". Lovefilm list needs updating. Anyone seen "the Queen". Not totally impressed by it but loved it for two parts: the Queen breaking down in here Land Rover in the middle of a stream, then breaking down, emotionally. And the scenes of her seeing the flowers outside Balmoral. Saintly Helen Mirren.

Which is worse: to be black or be queer?

In this thread and others there has been some comments about how difficult it is to empathise/sympathise with anyone of a different group. I appreciate that, as a straight white bloke, I cannot feel the direct psychological stress caused a racist/sexist/homophobic comment but in general I think it is more helpful to think in much broader terms. When a friend's father died I could not feel his immediate emotional response, but I could put my arm around him and offer a comforting shoulder to cry on. As a human being I could empathise, because our brains are able to create emotion. I have wept at many a film or book precisely because my human mind can make emotion out of a fiction. If that's the case, then it's not too big a leap for me to make a close approximation of the pain caused by a prejudiced comment. I think this precisely because people do not fit into the easily recognised denominations; ie white, black, homosexual etc. If I end up standing in a group of people like me, as in white, straight blokes, I feel uneasy, for the very reason that they are obviously not like me. People like me would mean that I should be standing in a mixed group that would include men, women, white, black, gay, straight.

regarding the "get over it" comment from NatashaD. Earlier in the thread, during a response to James, Muffintop stated that "you won't hear me mentioning this 2 years down the line!" pretty much showing that she is a well-balanced person who will indeed get over it. Though not perhaps just at this point when the comment still rankles.

A nice young man called Brendan walked me home last night. Or did I walk him home? A mutual Laurel and Hardy amble. lovely evening again. I was up early too, annaj - but all I made was a mess.

Thinking about this, and in light of some of the recent posts, I'm going to modify my opinion about boot camp for wayward males. Rather than push them together in a testosterone zone with other shouty, manic, aggressive men, trying to stamp out their macho tendencies by exposing them to iron discipline, we ought to be looking at ways in which we could normalise the way they interact with women. They need to get in touch with their feminine sides.

That phenomenon has been well documented - Londoners being woken in the middle of the night when it does, on the rare occasion, get too quiet.

Clive, I agree with you again about targetted conscription or some such like for aggressive male tearaways.

Totally agree with you, I hate that side-effect of the changes in society but the attempt to crack down on the whole population of young people with measures such as conscription is a regressive and counterproductive move.

James, I have just read a lot of this thread whilst at work and my poor, end-of-the-week brain is not processing properly so sorry if I am someone who has not grasped what you were saying. Just to say repeat that I dislike anything hateful said to anyone. Trouble is that you have invited people to compare these two very nasty phenomena and I'm going to presume that some people will earnestly come out saying that the sum total effect of Racism is worse than the sum total effect of homophobia.

I'm going to pitch up later to this. Got an event at work.

I pretty much abhor any hateful comments. Racist, sexist etc. It's not always what is said - it's the way it is said. We've got into some very protracted debates on this forum over that - *Bob* vs Atila springs to mind - how that all blew up because the comment was typed not said, so it's inflection was misinterpreted. I think hate is the key element here.