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We should occupy the land and free it for the people of East Dulwich.

That isn't what the LibDems said at all... they don't think the current LTNs reduce pollution or traffic on polluted roads, they want to bring in policy with residential support and they have discussed and explained these policies. Nowhere have they said they want to make driving easier or increase car use. So please keep to the thread discussing LTNs and stop putting words in others mouths. Now - back to LTNs - has anyone seen March/April traffic and pollution data for EDGrove?

4 at a station... great, let's dig out the Champers. You know 4 is pretty poor for London, most of Brixton is 6. But you know ..... yea!

PTAL doesn't rise above 3 until one gets to Herne Hill or Peckham - 6 is the best and parts of Dulwich and ED barely get to 1 or 2.

PTAL in this area is already one of the worse in London. No 40 was a great route to LB and Guys Hospital.

I wish they would leave it to go a bit wild...good for widelife.

Framing us as climate-change denying, polluting, haters of walking/cycling, anti-green policy and petrol-heads is far easier than defending a failed project and actually engaging one?s brain to consider global impact. Of course when they are faced by WHO clean air and anti-pollution campaigner and woman of the year award Rosumund Kissi-Debra, who actively campaigns against LTNs on the same basis as anti-LTN campaigners in ED and Dulwich the gaslighting is exposed for all to see. I feel the same about the 37 bus, I usually walk to HH station, but used to occasionally catch the 37 before the 5xLTNs driving congestion into EDG - but no longer. I?m lucky to be fairly mobile, but if I couldn?t walk to HH my bus journey on the 37 would take a long, long time in congested traffic now.

More people use buses than cycle and a huge amount of the slow moving traffic on Croxted and EDG that reduces the bus service efficiency is due to journeys that start outside the borough, as parents drive children to schools with very wide catchment areas. In this part of the borough PTAL is low. This is why LTNs Do Not reduce polllution or traffic in this area and the plan was badly mismanaged and misjudged. The effort should have been thrown into increasing buses, increasing cycle lanes and making private schools put on more smaller school buses that collect more children across a wider area. Yes..a few roads are enjoying less cars on their road, but at the expense of others health, environment and ability to live on a peaceful, safe road. Very, very selfish and green washing instead of making any real environmental impact.

Yes maybe Southwark buys that land and gifts it to the residents of East Dulwich to replace Greendale land that we currently use to play football, volleyball etc. play with the kids and use for recreation...which will disappear soon. Or half for recreation and half a wildlife area. I?m bored of private schools in this area - creating traffic mayhem and owning huge swathes of green space. The residents get a raw deal.

Parakeets none..but watch them for a while...intelligent, acrobatic, sociable and all those attributes make it difficult to discourage but interesting to watch. Although they can?t be bothered with niger seed feeders, so goldfinches are left alone. Tree is beautiful and bird song link great! Saw and heard a greenfinch on Greendale...haven?t seen one for years.

https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/its-for-your-own-good-lambeth-councillor-battles-with-anti-ltn-crowd-at-herne-hill-hustings/

Ha ha report in Southwark news.. At one point, trying to quell a baying, pro-LTN contingent, Labour?s Herne Hill Councillor, and Deputy Lambeth Mayor Pauline George, said: ?It?s for your own good! Climate emergency people! Your happiness is our joy!?. Parts of Herne Hill are run by Southwark but a large part is run by Lambeth Council. Liberal Democrat candidate for Dulwich Village, Richard Wingfield said her words ?sent a chill down my spine? adding: ?It?s not for the council to tell you how to live your lives.?

You should watch the Herne Hill Hustings.. it covers Dulwich issues and Lambeth border. The arrogance of the Lambeth LP candidate and the obfuscation and 'telling the audience that Southwark Labour knows best' from the Southwark LP candidate was painful for me as a life-long LP supporter. Green Southwark guy seemed to listen and respond well. The sound is a bit mad at the beginning but settles down.

?When we knock on doors, we?re not there to talk about Downing Street. We talk about potholes in their street. The street lights, the bins. Ultimately, it?s a tired, out-of touch Labour council,? Oh sorry...that's Bury not East Dulwich and DV!

LP has help every local election from Momentum who come in en masse from other local areas to help canvas/leaflet. Only one LP Goose Green councillor has ever knocked on my door. Councillors in office have protected time off.... candidates standing who are school teachers, charity workers and risk managers do not. Don't knock people who stand for office and care about community - whatever party they are standing for, it is a public service and should be applauded.

Exactly!

The issue with the current ?experiment? initiated under Covid rules is that it creates areas of High Traffic Neighbourhoods as well as LTNs. Traffic hasn?t evaporated, hence the overall rise along ED Grove - despite a drop in traffic across London of about 11% not related to any LTN implementation. A plan to reduce car use across the area would be great - proper school coach provision for schools with a wide catchment area, local buses, utilising ALL roads for public transport and a walking, cycling network. If you all recall...some of these LTN fan-boys and girls, were the same people who objected to buses on their road. The P4 and 37 were both rerouted due to pressure from those who have been gifted closed roads by some weird algorithm that has nothing to do with inequality, the most polluted roads or the roads with the highest pedestrian use. It?s never been about reducing car use...it?s all been about having one?s road gated from other people to use and one?s personal residence sitting within a quiet road.

Indeed Bic..but you will be told it's your 'perception' and 'you have already made up your mind' and that you are not listening to 'facts'. In reality, those in power can publish 'facts' that are manipulated data. As Rockets points out the ED Central figure runs around 12,000 until the blip after the CH LTN - so why use a figure of 15,000 that is an outlier across 4 years. The only reason is manipulating data to 'prove' an intervention has a positive effect. But.... there is no validity in this data.

I can't speak for Rockets, but data turned into statistical analysis is always manipulated, my question is why use a baseline that is post -LTN implementation rather than pre? If LTNs work and reduce traffic, congestion at peak times and pollution I'm all for them, but I have found no convincing research and locally have witnessed the opposite effect.

Sept 19 with the increased figure (read Champion Hill report saying there was a significant increase in traffic on EDG post LTN) is being used instead of the pre-LTN figure in Jan 19. Why is that....... It also was in a difference place 14 metres is not insignificant....my flat is many metres away from that data-point despite one poster deciding I practically live up that lamp-post!

It is more like 15% rise from a pre-LTN baseline if Jan 2019 data is less than Sept 2019 data - as Sept 2019 is after CH LTN that increased traffic on ED Grove by 20%.... The data produced to convince us that LTNs work, has given even more evidence that they do not reduce traffic on ED Grove and evaporation is a myth - thanks Goldilocks...excellent work.

So the Champion Hill LTN went in - and there was a rise in traffic outlined thus "The most notable increases are observed along Grove Lane/Champion Park (northbound), Camberwell Grove (southbound), East Dulwich Grove (westbound)'. Which is this 2019 data (which was not on the map point in Feb2021 as there were only 4 data sets). Now this 'Champion Hill' data is being used as the 'baseline'.... mmhhhhhhh I think this makes all the data even more suspect to be honest - I would like to know the traffic count pre-Champion Hill LTN please and any LTN please. Not a count after an LTN went in!

Now that is very interesting - when I interrogated this data-set in February this year there were only 4 data points from Sept 2021 and nothing before that point (CSV file records 4 data-points attached as downloaded in Feb). Now data has been added from 2019 as well as the newer data from this year...mmhhhhhh...one can only wonder.

?there wasn?t an ATC at that site prior to Sept 2021 as Southwark council itself states. Even the interactive ?dot? map of ATCs only has data from Sept 2021. I think our neighbour in the closed road needs to look again. As Southwark summarises in that sentence on the dashboard- it is a new counter from 2021 and there is no prior data.

Thank you EgyptianGooseRescuer, what a very kind person you are.