Mick Mac

Rosie Now that you have highlighted that these types (eg honour killings) of crime are included and reflected in the 1:10 ratio I think it would be interesting how much VAW goes on within ethnic minorities in the UK and how much is outside ethnic minorities. Some ethnic minorities have beliefs, religious or otherwise that allow, through custom, turning a blind eye or otherwise, abuse of male and female children and adults. Police and support services deal with the victims as best they can. Obviously victims of abuse from ethnic minoroties are no more or less entitled to support but I think their abuse needs to be addressed with a top down approach. I'm sure government agencies are working on this. For this reason I have added my name to the Amnesty "Help the Human" campaign. I agree it is a good campaign, but I think having looked at your link to the Amnesty website its a worldwide problem and the 1:10 UK VAW ratio does not necessarily, I think, reflect the correct proportions for East Dulwich or for my friends/family or the wider group of people I know. That's not to be interpreted as I don't think FAW happens in east dulwich or the wider community, unfortunatley it does, but other than preaching human decency I'm not sure what we can do to prevent it happening.

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Mick, when I was a student in Scotland I used to > go to 'Paradise' and sample 'The Jungle', quite an > experience! > I would often go wearing my Utd colurs, and > because of the close links between the clubs never > had a problem. You quite often see Celtic fans at > Old Trafford too. Probably one of the best > atmospheres I've ever experienced at a football > match was when Celtic won the league in their > centenary year, 1988. I remember there was a small > contingent of Dundee 'wannabee Rangers' fans, who > left the ground after only 15 mins as Celtic > stormed into a 3-0 lead!.. Sounds fantastic - I never made it to Celtic until the new stadioum, so never experienced the Jungle. I knew a guy who used to go in the sixties when they were crammed in. He told me that you would be standing there watching the game and someone behind would call out "look out behind" and then pi*s on the terraces right behind you, apparently this was common place, they did not bother going to the toilets. Lovely. 1988 was fantastic though, I think that was Frank McAvennie's year , I think they won the double and in the cup I think they were losing 1-0 with a couple of minutes to go and they won 2-1.

Rosie - You have quoted figures above under Violence against Women, including 1) honour killings and 2) female genital mutilation. Surely these items are either mostly, if not completely, restricted to ethnic monorities in the UK? If so this campaign should be about ethnic minoroties in the UK being subject to laws of this country.

I think in very general terms - so have nothing specific in mind except that when the markets pick up they will pick up quite quickly as money goes back in and confidence is restored, and generally a bull market will average 3-5 years (from memory - no time to check statistics) I'm all for taking a spread of risk, so in the past I have selected 5-10 unit trusts with a good track record. Nothing more exciting than that, but its timing thats important and always spread risk.

Its a cycle - Invest now (not at Cheltenham, I mean proper investing)

It might make a nice welcome mat for a mouse, if you have any and can find where they get in.

DM (swoons)

Sorry Declan.

Sorry guys, but this one was not serious. I got such a pasting on the other thread I thought I would run this one. It was discussed hypothetically betwen some friends of ours recently. I have only two children - both girls, and to be honest it would be both or none as most people suggested, if I wanted to spend my money that way, which I prob wouldn't. Rosie made me laugh. And yes my wife says I'm sexist too. Made for a good thread though - lots of responses in a short time.

We have 3 children, two are girls and one, the youngest, is a boy. We could only afford to send one to public fee paying school. Who should go. I'm having this debate with my wife at the moment. I think the boy, as he will, on balance of probabilities be in a career the longest. Anyone agree or disagree?

I'm with you Declan - a fair propoertion of my social life revolves around playing sport (just golf) or watching others sports with friends. My father was an academic and was totally disinterested in sport, he had lots of hobbies, local history, writing short stories, working with wood etc - I think people just find ways to occupy their time that interest them and for us its sport.

Noone disagrees that it is a worthwhile point made in the original thread. All right minded people abhor violence. I however was responding to Huguenots point on female bosses, hence the sub plot developed along different lines from the original thread. Women have it tough - they don't get treated equally and therefore many decide not to pursue their careers. This is a unfair but leaves us with a "subset" of older women in the workplace, not a full cross section. This is particularly acute in the legal and financial city firms. Some of these women and particularly in my firm are not nice people in any way shape or form. Of two in our firm, one has a female assistant who absolutley hates her, the other got a witches hat from a female member of staff as a secret santa present. Often these women get on better with male staff than female staff. I can't put my point more clearly than that - in my experience, based upon people in our firm and what other male and female members of staff think about these people, they are both ambitious control types whom noone likes, both are unmarried. None of the above is sexist, its a true representation of my experience and I stick by it. People may take it personally while its a general point, of course not everyone is like these two women, but I would guess there are many others like them, and many others not like them. As for Rosies point - yes it is a woman's right to choose to have children and a career, but career options can be limited if you choose part time work or cannot commit outside work hours, thats what happens unfortunately. Tell me thats not true. Then women finding career opportunites limited get frustrated and many leave. Tell me thats not true. I know loads of them.

Following on from Tillie's point, I have not seen the Palio - but for those who do not know it is an annual horse race round the square in Sienna, and if you cannot make it in August, Sienna is still well worth a visit. San Gimiano (suspect spelling) is also worth a visit - its the medieval manhatten with tall medieval towers. You could also visit a Tuscan vineyear - Unfortunately I cannot remember the name of the one we visited, but they did organised tours and afterwards they provided a lunch with their wine and all their local produce, the vineyard was surrounded by forest where they hunted wild boar. It was the best wine tour we have ever been on.

Bristol City?

Ruffers - why does it take you 24+ minutes to get to bed. Anyway, another guess - Charlton?

OK - Liverpool v Someone else in red - does that get us half way there?

Mikecg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Your a Scott tight, I mean right?. > No Mike - I'm Irish. Great attempt at humour though.

Not the answer to the question Ruffers, but I do remember the first ever live league game - Tottenham v Nottingham Forest - must have been about 1983ish. Just for general interest. But I have no idea of the first live sky game - but will go with, Arsenal v MU as a wild guess.

Mike - the point is - your original post says "Prime Minister of England" - you are beginning to sound like a redneck American, he is the UK Prime Minister, there is no English Prime Minsiter - its a UK government.

Mike - is that the Scottish "Prime Minister of England" - how strange.

It seems that immediatley following yesterday's revelation that the British Army Special Forces were once again operating undercover in Northern Ireland, there has tonight been a gun attack on an army base by republicans in Antrim, Northern Ireland. There will no doubt be chicken and egg theories but for me the use of army undercover operations in Northern Ireland without prior agreement with political parties was reckless in the extreme. It seems that the committees set up wherby army and police would be accountable to political parties were completely sidestepped in making this decision which could have significant repurcussions for peace in Northern Ireland. The decision was taken without consultation. I have no doubt that this move would have needed Prime Ministerial agreement and Gordon Brown's pathetic premiership rolls on, after John Major and Tony Blair having done so much to build for the future in Northern Ireland. The security forces have a history of illegal acts in Northern Ireland and these are well remembered. Unfortunatley yesterdays and tonights events may have significant consequences that with a bit of diplomacy may have been avoided. BBC

It was Berti Vogts - well done. Red Devil or Quids to ask the next question - fastest finger first.

Well Quids - I am 41 and I have had the impression that Bowie is generally recognised as an icon of music. Anyone who is as productive as him will produce a fair amount of not so good material, but I think in general his early stuff is still recognised as groundbreaking. Oasis, for me, Morning Glory was a brilliant album, when it came out I lived in Clapham (sorry!) and had just started going out with my now wife, and life seemed pretty good. The album produced hit after hit and that summer every bar in clapham was playing tracks from it - it seemed never ending. That album had a number of very good songs and I don't think Oasis have ever revisited that standard. It was a feelgood album. But Oasis will never be revered like Bowie long term. Although his best material was slightly before my time I get the impression that he has a respect in the music profession that Oasis will never touch.

There are apparently many Liverpool fans on the forum so I expect a lot of people will know this, if old enough.

Yes - you are right with the metaphor Quids - he took him from behind.