Loutwo

Btw, Sephiroth, do you think it?s only the English (and Welsh) who are stupid enough to vote to leave the EU? Because last time I checked, the Italians Greeks and most former eastern bloc nations were pretty discontented too. The Hungarian government is, dare I say it, bordering on the extreme. Can?t see them remaining in for long. Louisa.

For once I didn?t bring pizza into this. Are we playing blow-in bingo again? If so I?ll get my scrapbook handy cos I?ve got three more corners begging to be filled. Louisa.

The English pride you refer to is a fallacy. Most English people didn?t want a vote on EU membership. Most don?t care enough about that one issue. But the buffoon that was Cameron put the vote to the people to save his own skin and to damage UKIP, but he was too arrogant to realise a population ravaged by austerity were more concerned with other matters, and used the referendum as a opportunity to whack him and his government with a big stick. Lesson? Don?t let people vote on complex issues. But that changes nothing. It happened, these are the consequences. And the polarisation continues. It will only end when we are brave enough as a democracy to enact the people?s will. Louisa.

Sephiroth, give me your perspective then on why Ireland was asked to vote again for the Lisbon Treaty. I thought decisions had to be unanimous, and correct me if I?m wrong, but most big decisions in Ireland go to a national referendum. What was wrong with the first answer? I am unashamedly old school Labour, and I do think capitalism has been allowed to ride ruff-shod over every aspect of our democracy. However, I am a pragmatist, and I know that nothing is perfect. As much as I distrust the EU, on reflection I understand it is a necessary evil in a globalised world. However, I don?t think us leaving will be the end of the world, and the rigidity of your position is quite shocking to be honest. Louisa.

Jenny1, I think he is a well informed person, and makes some very interesting points about how the structure of the EU doesn?t allow for flexibility when it comes to democratic processes. Why do you think the left of the Labour Party is so anti-EU? Most people of Corbyn?s ilk are opposed to the dictatorial capitalism which the EU allows to thrive, and any attempt to stand upto it is immediately rejected and treated with utter contempt. Ireland said no, and the people were told their answer wasn?t good enough, so have another go until you say yes. I think that?s exactly what a lot of ?remain? voters are expecting from this referendum process here too, and they?ll be sorely disappointed IMO. Louisa.

Sephiroth you know as well as I do most Irish voters didn?t give two hoots about the Lisbon Treaty, and the EU had utter contempt for the referendum process. Interesting read below which explains why the EU don?t respect democracy. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty Louisa.

On the point raised above about the SNP and independence, support for a second independence referendum is at its lowest point in decades, and the SNP are not performing well in opinion polls. Even if they get a second crack at the whip, there?s absolutely no appetite amongst most Scots to rock the boat even further and make themselves poorer by leaving two unions in one fowl swoop. But the ?breakup of the Union? narrative is yet another scare tactic used by some in the ?remain? camp to justify a further referendum. Louisa.

Just because I changed my mind, after voting, doesn?t mean others did. Check the opinion polls. It isn?t as clear cut as you think. In your logic, people who made a decision which they believe in are actually cretins who need the nanny state to slap them on the wrist and ask them to think again. Oh hang on, isn?t that what the Irish government did? Ireland was forced to vote numerous times for something they didn?t really care about, in a referendum hoisted upon them by membership of the EU, and their democratic process. And despite rejecting it after being shown the facts, they were told to think again by their pro EU government, just because they didn?t want to allow democracy to take its course. No doubt you?d be the first to NOT want the Irish to re-run a referendum on same sex marriage, or abortion? Yet when the EU asks, you of course have to obey. It?s pathetic. Referenda is about people coming to a majority conclusion, whatever that conclusion is and whatever damage it may cause. And yes, a lot of the so called damage is just conjecture at this time. The Irish border issue can and will be resolved, the Scots will still probably remain in the union, and the world around us won?t sink into some imagined post apocalyptic abyss. Oh and we might even re-join in another five years. But hey, what do I know? I?m just a moron who voted for something I didn?t understand. Louisa.

I find it difficult to justify a further referendum, simply because definitions of ?leave? are ambiguous. If politicians want to hand such complex and important decisions down to the populace, it is imperative those definitions are in place before the question is asked. They were not. People can only go on what information they have been given and the questions they have been asked. Let?s not start blaming the great unwashed for reaching a decision on those ?facts?. A referendum round two, which may have those definitions, could easily be rejected again. Are ?remainers? now saying they?ll happily toddle off out the EU and accept that the ignorant people who voted ?leave? first time actually meant it? I doubt that?s the case. Furthermore, if there?s a narrow ?remain? vote, do we get round 3? Or would it not just be easier to accept the first result, get out of the EU in whatever fashion our politicians conjure up (god forbid), and then reconsider entry at a later date. And yes, it will be painful, and yes their will be concessions, but unfortunately that?s what happens when politicians hand big decisions to people who don?t understand them. Louisa.

No proof at all less people would vote leave in a follow up, and if anything the very boundaries between the two camps are more defined now than they ever were 3 years ago. Not just my opinion, check the opinion polls. As a vote leave person who changed their mind post vote, I am in no position to judge switchers. However, the whole process of democracy depends upon majority opinion. If the majority voted one way, the legitimate thing to do in a FPTP democracy is to enact that decision. If, in a decade or less we feel the need for a second referendum, by all means go for it. I?d happily vote to re-join. But DO NOT, reverse a decision BEFORE it has been legitimised, that?s classic EU dictation. Keep asking the same question until you give me the answer I want. Patronising. BTW, it wasn?t just ?England? who voted majority for Brexit, Wales did too. Louisa.

I was swarmed near a perturbing bush on CPR. Wasn?t the nicest experience on my way to the post office. They?re everywhere. I think some of them bite too. Next time they?ll come off worse, believe me. Louisa.

I?m playing it. Even without my contribution we?ve somehow managed to get Brexit in the mix, and C2DE. I still need ?yummy mummy? and ?posh cheese on toast? to get my four corners. As you were everyone. Louisa.

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Speaking of the Castle, if a Wetherspoons opened > in SE22 it would probably be the end of the > Castle. Not at all. Wetherspoons offer a completely different pub model to the Castle. For starters you wouldn?t get live sports in a spoons, and correct me if I?m wrong but that?s one of the main draw points for them. They also do not serve food, last time I went in. Again, a completely different demographic. The Castle appeals to older men not interested in food, a Wetherspoons appeals to a broad range of different groups but importantly doesn?t offer a sport package. Louisa.

C2DE are the three lower social and economic groups in a society, used especially to refer to consumers in this group and their buying behaviour. Louisa.

fishbiscuits Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Loutwo Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > you choose to take a valid thread off topic to > feed your own ego. This > > is a genuine thread to discuss a way of > diversifying the nightlife culture of the > > neighbourhood. Nothing more, nothing less. > > > Loutwo Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Maybe it?s just the wannabe nature of some > locals. They?d like to > > aspire to Mayfair, but can barely afford Clapham > or Battersea, so get stuck round here. Could you point me to a single thread on this forum which does not deviate off point? If you fail to notice a sarcastic comment said in jest and use it as a tool to discredit my thread, then don?t bother contributing. Or, if you want to troll, maybe take a look at some other threads, if not nearly all of them, which have also been dragged off topic at some point. Thanks. Louisa.

fishbiscuits Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > KidKruger Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Same kind of responses naturally. > > If that's aimed at me in some capacity - I plead > guilty for fuelling the flames/feeding the troll. > I can't help it. Yes you can help it. But you choose to take a valid thread off topic to feed your own ego. This is a genuine thread to discuss a way of diversifying the nightlife culture of the neighbourhood. Nothing more, nothing less. I wanted to gauge opinion on throwing a chain pub in the mix to see if it would appeal. That?s all. But thanks for your contributions anyway, very constructive. Louisa.

fishbiscuits Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This whole thread was always going to be all about > "look at me, I'm so down-to-earth, everyone else > is an idiotic snob/wannabe" > > We all know there's not going to be any ridiculous > petition, it's just about YOU, making the same old > tedious point. Again and again. > > Finally you play your hand, with the same old > snide insults that you so love to regurgitate. > > Thoroughly unpleasant character. I hope you vomit > on your ?2.50 brexit beer. Stop being a snob. Just because you live in your metropolitan bubble where apparently popping along to what was toastED, was some sort of bargain basement guilty pleasure. Get into the real world. Louisa.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So are Weatherspoon's exempt from High rents and > rates. ?? > > If not, what is the justification for all other > outlets charging so much for Beer, Spirits and > Food. ? > > Answer. Greed. > > DulwichFox. Exactly this point. It seems some pub cos try their luck in certain places if they believe people are gullible enough to pay the price. Not all of course. Wetherspoons tend to buy beer in towards or close to its sell by date and therefore able to get it cheaper, I would presume. It?s not a bad business model, it seems to work pretty well. The fact they offer meal deals with alcohol is a big browning point too. I?ve often ventured upto Fox on the Hill over the years, and am the first to admit the atmosphere can be generic and the food isn?t exactly Michelin starred, but it serves a purpose. Louisa.

Abe_froeman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lots of snobs posting in this thread. Doesn?t surprise me with all the Clapham intake. Then again, Clapham has a couple of spoons, and they do very well for themselves. Maybe it?s just the wannabe nature of some locals. They?d like to aspire to Mayfair, but can barely afford Clapham or Battersea, so get stuck round here. Doesn?t mean the rest of us should suffer and pay astronomical prices though. As I?ve said previously, spoons serves a wide audience, it would naturally perform well around here. It may even boost the night life culture. Louisa.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have been a Member of Campaign for Real Ale > CAMRA for many years. 25+ ?? > > Every Year I get 40 Vouchers for (currently) 50p > off of a pint of Real Ale or Real Cider > in any participating Weatherspoons Pub. > > I have never used these as I Never use any Spoons > Pub. Just not a fan. > > Foxy Love them or hate them, spoons are very supportive of CAMRA and always offer decent local ales at reasonable prices. Something certain other chains should take note of. I get that a Wetherspoons isn?t everyone?s cup of tea, often void of personality, but at least they do cater for a wider audience. As chains go, they?re not bad at offering value for money. Louisa.

My recommendation would be to visit the dog free section of any park, which contains seating in a fenced off area. A number of parks locally have this facility provided. I would personally choose a quieter park like Belair or Hilly Fields, rather than Dulwich or Peckham Rye. Louisa.

A Lidl where the co-op is, and a Wetherspoons where The Grove formerly resided, may work. Although, I have to agree with others the location just isn?t right anymore for a public house. I have a few dream wish list locations for a Wetherspoons on LL, but it probably will raise some eyebrows on here no doubt. Louisa.

Regardless of the owner and his politics, the brand he owns offers a refreshing alternative to all the other pub co?s, especially the ones in London, who seem hell bent on dispossessing a huge chunk of the populace by overcharging for drinks and food. The great thing Wetherspoons offer is diversity in clientele as well as a menu which caters for most tastes. Louisa.

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ?An affordable option for local people? ? > I don?t get that. > Who are the local pubs being patronised by > currently, if not local people ? Most local options, are not affordable to everyone. We all know Wetherspoons tend to be affordable for a larger demographic. Louisa.

I would like to gauge reaction to a proposed petition to J D Wetherspoon to take over and use one of the existing pubs in the local area, so that we have a more affordable option for local people. All the recent threads about expensive meals and drinks with prices just continuing to rise seems to me ridiculous. For any sort of affordable pub option (with food as a side), we need to venture over the hill to Camberwell, down to Peckham, or upto Forest Hill. What would local opinions be about a petition to get them to consider this area? I remember the power of the forum over getting M&S to open up, and I think with enough support we could encourage Wetherspoons to consider the neighbourhood. Thoughts? Louisa.