A huge pile of rubble (aka Dulwich Hospital)

[Muttley]

Close to the heart of East Dulwich is a huge pile of rubble (aka the former east side of Dulwich Hospital) which appears to have evoked no comment on this forum. They seemed to be in an awful rush to knock the old buildings down last winter, but not much has happened since. Some folk reckon they brought in the bulldozers to pre-empt any attempt by English Heritage to save the so-called East Dulwich Onions (the domes on top of the towers).

Southwark's website dedicated to the new Dulwich Community Hospital expresses the wishful thought that our new hospital will be built by 2011, a year before the Olympics. Hmm, why do I not believe this?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I think there was some activity just beforehand but now it's done.. it's almost a case of "what's the point"

It's be an orrible PFI carbuncle with limited services. Oh wait, after this weeks announcements about hospitals maybe it will be re-zoned as flats.

Sorry - came over all negative there.

[Frisco]

A lot of of Dulwich Hospital remains, including the entrance area which is quite attractive. I was surprised to find that the towers and onions/domes weren't listed already, and it's a pity that someone didn't come up with a design that incorporated these landmark architectural features. East Dulwich doesn't have that many to preserve, after all.

[Keef]

I was chatting to Mrs Keef about this the other day (well not exactly this, but stay with me).

Just saying that it was funny if you look up above the shops on Sydenham High Street, and compare them to Lordship Lane, the buildings are just so much nicer in Sydenham.

I suspect (and I can't be arsed to look in to this), that ED was originally where the servants lived who would service the village and west. Sydenham was once a wealthy area, and a lot of houses were built around the time of the great exhibition. Camberwell boasts some absolutely gorgeous old houses...

How times change eh? ;-)

[Jeremy]

Lets not forget that when it comes to hospitals, there are more important things than the way they look. The old building was/is in a poor state of repair, and pretty minging inside.

[Keef]

Agreed

[bignumber5]

Just going to jump a little to the defence of ol' duwich hosp... yes, it did always look like a strong gust of wind might finish it off, but my grandma could only come and see us at xmas when we were little because Dulwich hosp had a renal dialysis unit that would take on extra staff at xmas to cover the extra peolpe with renal failure who came to the metrop to visit family. Apparently there wasn't anything wrong with it on the inside!

[Keef]

I remember visiting someone in there in the early 90s, and it was a bit grim then. That said, I was born there, so it's great! ;-)

[Asset]

I had a blood test done there a few years ago and they lost the results.

[Frisco]

"Apparently there wasn't anything wrong with it on the inside!"

Oh there was! The remaining original part has been tarted up a bit now though, and it's a much better experience when I have to go there for blood tests.

[snorky]

did ante natal classes there .

[Ko]

Dulwich Hospital was the last remaining pavillion-style hospital in England.

The Dulwich Society were involved in trying to get English Heritage to list it (on two occasions I believe).

There were options to keep the onion towers AND have the modern hospital, options which may have been financially viable, but the PCT had other ideas.

Unfortunately, I think it was all about politics, rather than what could have been the best result all-round. It reminds me a bit of what is currently happening with the Harris Boys Academy.

However, at the end of the day we should get a good modern hospital. Its just that they could have had this AND kept more of the historic building. A real waste.

[Ondine]

They said they'd have had to lose much-needed space if they redesigned to retain the onions.

[Ko]

A well-respected architect came up with some feasible plans. The ear-marked onions would have been on land not needed for any building work. The plan was to retain some of the onions, not all. Funding could have been applied for from other sources.

Looking at the various documents produced and the way they went about things, it didn't fill me with much confidence in how things are run. In my opinion, there seemed to be a lack of transparency and accountability. That's politics.

[Amelie]

Most of the roads in East and West Dulwich were built speculatively when the railway came here, however many of the houses built on the roads remained empty for a long time before people finally started moving here. I don't think it was to do with 'class' per se, after all lots of wealthy merchants moved to Dulwich Village after the new Southwark Bridge was built. Their irritation at not being able to send their sons to Dulwich College was one of the reasons for the school being re-schemed by the Charity Commission.

[Frisco]

"I don't think it was to do with 'class' per se"

I agree, and my understanding is that the housing was built when land from the local manor was sold off in parcels, with it mostly being aimed at City clerks and professional trades, such as tailors etc. My house, which is by no means exceptional, had servant bells, and I found all of the pulleys and wires for them when I was rewiring.

[ratty]

snorky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> did ante natal classes there .

So did I..........last week!

[EDDW]

Ko Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dulwich Hospital was the last remaining

> pavillion-style hospital in England.

>

> The Dulwich Society were involved in trying to get

> English Heritage to list it (on two occasions I

> believe).

>

> There were options to keep the onion towers AND

> have the modern hospital, options which may have

> been financially viable, but the PCT wanted to

> take the easy route and just demolish it ASAP.

>

> Unfortunately, it was all about politics, rather

> than what could have been the best result

> all-round. It reminds me a bit of what is

> currently happening with the Harris Boys Academy.

>

> However, at the end of the day we should get a

> good modern hospital. Its just that they could

> have had this AND kept more of the historic

> building. A real waste.

Two points:

1. Haslar Naval / Military Hospital is also a pavilion hospital and very grand it looks. Sadly about to be lost to the military and probabaly also to the local community as an NHS facility which is what is has also been for many years.

2. As someone inviolved in the hospital refurbishment / replacement programme for 15 years I have to tell you that it is unfortunately a fact that refurbishing an old Victorian building costs as much as, if not more, than knocking it down and building a brand new facility on the same site. Economics drives the decision makers not sentiment. Add to this economic fact the additional fact that building new allows staff to develop new models of care. delivery and provides more flexibility - beautiful Victorian buildings with long narrow corridors, small rooms, poor natural light and lousy energy efficiency just don't work for modern healthcare - and you can see why old is not cool for the NHS. A better deal for the Dulwich Hospital if we wanted to retain the architecture would have been yuppy flats / alternative business uses with a new building funded from the proceeds of the sale.

[Ko]

Thanks for the info. I will look up a pic of Haslar - it sounds great.

From memory, the plan re keeping some of the onions was not for them to house the new community hospital. They wanted to keep some onions on land not needed for the community hospital and instead use it for other facilities and use funding from other sources, not the NHS.

I completely agree that it is not feasible to refurbish the Victorian buildings for the new hospital and that the NHS doesn't have money for this. The Administrative Law aspects were very interesting but not something which we should discuss on this forum.

Very sad that Haslar might be lost too. :(