Has anyone living in a Victorian terrace had a kitchen side return extension?

[mrs f]

we are currently undergoing this....

and from day one your whole downstairs is totally filthy as they are digging the foundations and as we are terraced they have to come through the house with the mud/clay/soil.

I'm not sure about how much value it will add to our house exactly as we brought it in a state and have had to re do the whole thing so not sure what the extension itself will add but in terms of living, it will be invluable.... We spent a long time looking for a house and saw a couple with side returns and even just looking round them it made such a huge difference to the living space, it toally connects the kitchen with the whole house, rather than the victorian attitude of having it so separate from the fromt reception rooms. In the end a main attraction to the house we brought was that we could afford to do this.

It's not ideal doing it in winter I know but we were planning on doing it in April but have had long delays due to a few things but now I'm pregnant I kind of put my foot down and insisted that we start..... there is no way I would want the builders there as I went in to labour!

I won't post who we are using quite yet, just because I don't want to tempt fate saying they are great when they haven't finished the job yet but so far so good..... but then I have a fair bit of experience of builders and am able to take them with a pinch of salt.

We are doing a whole lot of other works so it's hard to say exactly how much it is costing us but around the 60k mark.... we had some people quote a lot more and some a bit less... but ours is 'slighly' different from the adverage bifold / 3 velux style and we are having very special doors and rooflight details....

The builders say they will finish before christmas but I think that it will be more like the end of Jan as we added in a bathroom refurb to the works so once it's all done i'll let you know how it went and whether it was worth it!

Also as someone else mentioned, you don't have to take out all of the walls, I saw one which was very nice where they had the middle (side) wall with kitchen cabinets along it like an island and then an opening above them to open up the new room and the new room/ side bit was all glass... so that must have been a lot cheaper to create a similar effect.... it depends whether you are really after that vast kitchen feel or not...

[happy82]

We had a loft conversion done last year and our side return this year which was finished just a month or so ago. We used different builders for each. The builders we ended up going with for our side return were fantastic and significantly cheaper than other quotes we received. ?20k total price (including the fitting of the kitchen, not including kitchen units or our patio doors). The work itself took around 11 weeks to complete although, as we went for underfloor heating we had to wait for the floor to be completely dry before we could have our floor laid (approx 8 weeks drying time). There was lots of dust and fairly stressful with a crawling one year old. However the side return has made a huge difference to our living space, especially with a young child. I would definitely recommend having it done. Our terrace house is not as wide as some houses which is why the quote was cheap but I am sure the builders we used would provide a very competitive quote. Please PM me if you want our builders details or if you want to see the work they have done to our house.

[busymum]

Our terrace sounds a bit different from others, as they already have 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. They are 2 stories at the front and 3 at the back but only have 45ft garden (proportionately quite small) I'm not sure there is any point in doing a loft conversion? I think it could make our house too top heavy? a side return would be much more useful but reading this post sound like a lot of stress and disruption ontop of the staggering cost. However much we love our house we sort of messed up when we bought it (before kids) by prioritizing 4 bedrooms over a big garden, we wouldn't be able to build out by much. Also whereas most terrace houses have side returns leading onto their neighbours side return our side return backs onto our neighbours actual house, their side wall (their house is the odd one out, I'm not explaining myself very well - I can only hope that someone understands what I mean). So their extractor fan and various other kitchen fume things would have to be moved if we wanted to build against their house. I guess we would have to pay for all that? probably not much in the grand scheme of things.

Actually however expensive it would be to move I think that might be the way forward for us small garden people. If we sell our house for lots of money (hopefully) and buy a 3 bedroom wreck with massive garden for 150k less, if that's possible! we could use the money to do a loft conversion and side return and everything else before we move in, that should work? No extra mortgage. Sorry to change direction of the thread slightly but does anyone know of any streets in ED that have massive garden's but 3 bed houses?

Will probably have a nervous breakdown in the process but it's got to be worth it for a side return !! Ha ha

Or could just try being grateful I have a house, put up and shut up and keep the money in the bank!

[The Nappy Lady]

busymum, Crystal Palace Road - Left hand side if driving up from Goose Green has very long gardens and 3 bed houses.

I can see the sense in what you are suggesting, maybe better to just move, live in rented whilst work is done and then end up with your ideal. But selling and moving does involve the hidden costs of estate agents feeds, stamp duty etc. which all eat into your equity remember.

[new mother]

Idea - if you have a side return on to your neighbour's sr, why not do the two together in a symmetricla design, save money and keep a good look?

[amydown]

That is indeed a good option if your neighbours want to do it too. Also, designs that can get turned down by planning officers can also go through if you are doing it with the neighbour such as when issues may arise due to right to light (not sure what the technical lingo is). The party wall itself costs around ?7-8k I think so sharing it with your neighbour definitely helps.

[Green and Teggin]

Hi

I have to agree with the two people who suggested doing a side return extension without knocking the side wall down. You can fit a galley kitchen in there, a library or an eating area for around ?30,000 (depending on finishes). It also means that although builders will most likely have to cart everything through the house, once they are outside they can build without a great deal of disturbance, knocking through only once the extension is watertight and secure.

My experience with applying for planning jointly with your neighbour has not been good to date. Planners tend to shy away from these as the neighbours are not bound by the approval, so one could build and the other one change their mind.

Somebody mentioned a neighbour's wall forming the party wall, and that there were vents etc coming out of this wall. They are not really allowed to do this, and you are well within your rights to ask them to remove them, at their cost. The problem is that you probably don't want to cause tension with your neighbours. Building up to their wall will benefit them thermally, so you could take that tack.

I am an architect and would be happy to answer questions.

Jacqueline

[The Nappy Lady]

Jacqueline (Green and Teggin),

Is it possible to extend the far end of the kitchen out into the side return, but leave an open courtyard higher up - i.e. between the french doors from the lounge, past the bay window in our dining room area? I have often thought this would be a nice option, as would leave the option to have fresh air from sitting room french doors, and that bit of our side return is very green, with tree ferns, ivy etc. but still gaining the extra width at the far end of the room.

My concern is how this works with drainage, as it would effectively be a closed courtyard - wall between us and neighbours on one side, and then house on other 3 sides...have visions of it turning into a swimming pool if we ever had a major downpour!

Would be interested to hear your views. I guess if it were possible the good thing about it would be that there would be less steel work etc.

Molly

[Green and Teggin]

Hi Molly

I have met you before. I used to live in a flat on Ivydale Road and bought our nappies from you - just over 5 years ago. Do you still live in the same house?

Anyway, on to your question. We have done something very similar on our house and I would recommend it. There are ways to drain it, so don't worry about that. You can turn it into a little Zen Garden. Come and see what we have done if you like.

Good to hear from you

Best wishes

Jacqueline

[klikker22]

Hi Amy

We are about to move to the area and looking for a builder to do our side return.

Could you share your builder's details?

Thanks

Kathryn

[The Nappy Lady]

How funny! Yes, still in the same house. I think I remember you now, were you in the flat near the little roundabout/church?

I would love to see what you have done - can you PM me with some contact details?

Best wishes, Molly

[The Nappy Lady]

Hi Kathryn,

I think you may need to read through the thread and Private Message each of the people who offered to share details, you should end up with a few builders to approach and get quotes from, which always seems like a good plan!

klikker22 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Amy

> We are about to move to the area and looking for a

> builder to do our side return.

> Could you share your builder's details?

> Thanks

> Kathryn

[fazer71]

dullified Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We have just completed a side return extension

> (Landells Road) which my boyfriend (a freelance

> architect) designed and built himself. Like

> snowboarder we didn't need planing permission as

> it fell under permitted development (and yes the

> rules have recently changed).

Is it still possible to build a side extension under permitted development ?

I spoke to an architect who said only rear extension is possible under permitted development a side extension needs planning permission ...

[supergolden88]

I wonder how many people who were thinking about a side extention when this thread started have actually completed one. I am desperate to sort my kitchen out (and a side extention would be the ideal) but have to convince my husband. We have lived in our house for 8 years and although we have replastered and put in new sash windows throughout and done many other improvements we still have a horror of a kitchen inherited from previous owners. Our neighbours had a side extention done a few years ago (through PlusRooms) so the party wall is already in place.

[amydown]

Best thing we did to our house. Completely changed the way we use our entire ground floor. Living room and dining room are kids (and plastic crap) free as we have a spacious play area in the kitchen having done the side return. If you already have the party wall from next door, should be a few grand of saving. Go for it!!!

[fazer71]

fazer71 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> dullified Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We have just completed a side return extension

> > (Landells Road) which my boyfriend (a freelance

> > architect) designed and built himself. Like

> > snowboarder we didn't need planing permission

> as

> > it fell under permitted development (and yes

> the

> > rules have recently changed).

>

> Is it still possible to build a side extension

> under permitted development ?

> I spoke to an architect who said only rear

> extension is possible under permitted development

> a side extension needs planning permission ...

In answer to my own question.

I contacted the government planning portal and they sent me a pdf

The answer it gives is NO

What a stupid set of rules you can build a 3 metre box on the back of an ED Victorian house but you can?t build in the side alley any deeper than 3 metres.

I contacted Southwark planning and their advice was they are no longer keen to give permission for side extensions because of light issues to the neighbour?s property.

We really do live in a stupid planning system where ED Victorian houses with a wasted space side alley are concerned!

So it looks like side extensions are now a nonsense of the planning lottery!

Here is a link to the current pdf for anyone interested in looking at complete stupidity.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PDforhouseholders_TechnicalGuidance.pdf

[Bishberro]

Hi - Having started this thread and lots of lovely people on the forum showing me their side returns and recommending architects etc we had ours done late last year. It was hard work without a kitchen for 3 months with two children but the end result has been totally worth it. We spend most of our time in there now and the kids love charging around it. It is expensive for the amount of floor space you get but we did it to live in and give us a bit longer in the house rather than thinking about getting the money back when it comes to selling. We got planning permission through Lewisham and they seemed fine. Our architect was Joe from KN Designs who I wouldn't hesitate to recommend.

[dulwichgirl2]

Great but how did you exist without kitchen for 3 months?! Tips for dealing with the hassle appreciated as currently I could not contemplate such an extension.

[Bishberro]

Hi Dulwichgirl, it wasn't too bad. We set up a microwave, kettle and toaster in our dining room and camped out there instead. My saviour was a George Foreman grill and a slow cooker to feed us all along with microwave rice/potatoes/veg. It was a pain not having a washing machine so I just did regular laundrette trips. The builders managed to set up a temporary cold water tap and sink in there for a while and then after that I had to do the washing up in the bath upstairs (admittedly this part was not fun). Also, they did the work in stages so although the kitchen was literally a building site we managed to keep our oven for the first three weeks which helped. I did take the kids out for tea a lot though. It was the constant dust and dirt that I found hard but looking back, it is worth the disruption. We went away quite a few weekends to stay with friends/family as well just to escape the mess.

[dulwichgirl2]

Thanks for the tips and well done!

[Tessa&James]

Hello!

I know you posted the message a long time ago but I was hoping you would be able to tell me the name of your builder re extending and fitting a kitchen.

Thank you so much!

[The Nappy Lady]

Our plans are in with Southwark now - eeek!

Hopefully kitchen side return will start this Autumn so cross your fingers for me guys!

I've only been dreaming about it for 15 long years!

[DirtyBox]

Could anyone who has done a side return extension and is happy with the builders PM me a reccomendation? I am also looking to do this to my 3 bed mid terrace as well as a loft conversion at the same time.

Thanks

[pascalbuildteam]

Hi guys,

We?ve actually recently developed an App for Side Return Kitchen Extensions that estimates the cost of the build. Maybe your readers might find it useful?

I?ve included the link below, please contact me if you want to know any more.

http://www.buildteam.com/build-your-price-start.html

Kind Regards

Pascal

[pascalbuildteam]

Hi guys,

We?ve actually recently developed an App for Side Return Kitchen Extensions that estimates the cost of the build. Maybe your readers might find it useful?

I?ve included the link below, please contact me if you want to know any more.

http://www.buildteam.com/build-your-price-start

Kind Regards

Pascal