Should he trust?

[Mick Mac]

I'm not surprised he gets a massive discount. Why does that not surprise me.

[Ladymuck]

> Why are people assuming it's a tax dodge, is it

> just because it's cash? Maybe they're reducing

> costs by avoiding credit card charges. Sounds like

> an incredibly no frillls hotel to me. Maybe they

> don't get enough guests to employ fulltime staff?

Absolutely. And the hotel IS incredibly no frills. I've seen the room (via his webcam when skyping me).

> However, if he is going to leave cash, find out

> which day and what time this cleaner is showing

> up. Either hang around if possible to meet the

> cleaner or at least minimise the amount of time

> it's lying around.

Definitely worth mentioning to him; though being in attendance at the same time as the cleaner is probably going to prove impossible if during working hours (it's a new job). But if he can at least find out which day...

[Ladymuck]

>... he could send a

> further email stating that he has left the cash

> and if there was any dispute he could use that as

> some form of evidence that he had done as he was

> asked.

(tu)

I think that damage limitation...or as HAL put it earlier, risk management, is going to be key here in helping to clear the mind as to what course of action to eventually take. I dearly want to trust. On the whole, it's good for the soul and for humankind (in my opinion). After all, by distrusting the hotel owners, aren't we effectively treating them as potential criminals when, in reality we have no right to do so? Sure, there are some scary elements to this very bizarre situation hubby and I find ourselves in, but for me, whilst they do provoke a certain degree of anxiety, I am not wholly convinced that these suspicions are sufficient reason to lose faith in people and the world in general. After all, many of us are happy to trust - for example - no-nonsense plainly packaged "basics" ranges in Tescos in exchange for a cheaper product. And lots of us don't even think twice about trusting Ryanair with their stripped-down airline service; again, in exchange for a bargain airfare.

Some of us have had our suspicions raised (including me - and definitely hubby) because cash is being asked for, in a room, to be collected by their cleaner, at some point. As Mr. Twirly has implied, are we perhaps making unhealthy assumptions here? Could it not be that this company's way of operating is merely an extension of the Tescos or Ryanair model? I.e. to do business in the most uncomplicated manner possible and to offer a product which consists of only the bare essentials and deliberately jettisons excess in return for a favourable hotel rate?

On the other hand - we may be about to be taken for a ride.

Oh gawd! I still don't know!

[LuLu Too]

Ladymuck - is your Hubby working with any locals?

If so, why doesn't he ask then what they would do?

It might turn out to be a perfectly usual way of doing business in that particular hotel?!

My philosophy when overseas is always seek local advice if not sure.

Good luck & hopefully you won't have a sleepless night tonight!

[Annette Curtain]

Hmmmmm. If there's a chest of drawers in his room then split the money equally between each drawer

That should reduce the risk by at least 4/5th's ( re-calculate for more drawers though )

:-SA.Curtain

[Ladymuck]

> Ladymuck - is your Hubby working with any locals?

>

> If so, why doesn't he ask then what they would

> do?

> It might turn out to be a perfectly usual way of

> doing business in that particular hotel?!

>

> My philosophy when overseas is always seek local

> advice if not sure.

What a brilliant philosophy! Thank you!

Hubby is working with locals (only since the last 3 days tho.).

[Twirly]

Has your hubby asked what happens if the cash goes missing? Maybe he should discuss this with the hotel "management", even if just via email. Sounds as if it hasn't occurred to them that this might cause anxiety in their guests.

Also, how long is he there for? What about paying for one week upfront in cash, see how it goes and if all seems OK, then pay a bigger amount and get a bigger discount next time?

Fingers crossed that it all works out for you both!

[Ladymuck]

> Has your hubby asked what happens if the cash goes

> missing? Maybe he should discuss this with the

> hotel "management", even if just via email.Sounds

> as if it hasn't occurred to them that this might

> cause anxiety in their guests.

Gosh, I think you might be right.

> Also, how long is he there for? What about paying

> for one week upfront in cash, see how it goes and

> if all seems OK, then pay a bigger amount and get

> a bigger discount next time?

Again, consideration of the risk management thing...contract is for 5 months.

[Jahman]

Total madness, this is 2011 and criminal empires encompass the globe. Even if the hotel is completely honest it is opening itself(and it's patrons) up to the criminality of others.

[acumenman]

I have travelled to Helsinki and out to other towns and the people are very decent, straight to deal with, and honest. Except of course for hotel cleaners, whom I wouldn't trust any further than I could see them.

It is a very well run society and somewhat stricter than here, a small example, one cannot take a rod and line and fish in the sea without a permit for that particular piece of sea, in other words if you get a permit to go fishing and catch nothing, without getting a new permit you cannot fish anywhere else. If the police stop you for speeding they ask you how much you earn per annum and you are legally bound to tell them, if you try it on and tell them less and it is checked upon and you were found to be lying they double the fine, which is of course influenced by your earnings, so that a lowly paid nurse will pay a greatly reduced amount compared to the company director for the comparable misdemeanor.

I personally think he (lordmuck) has no problems with his bag of cash to the cleaner, but he might possibly pay by travellers cheques I think written on them is 'legal tender'. I do not think that the hotel would want to jeopardise their trading by 'stitching up' their guests, otherwise it would be out of business and into the courts, and it is a very much stricter regime than here.

I have stayed in such hotels in France and there is no one around and you get a code to get in the door, and in the morning a kind of machine thing unlocked itself to supply croissants for breakfast, all rather eerily done but it does cut costs hugely compared with a standard hotel.

When I was in Finland about '95 it was the most expensive place I had visited (other than the arctic circle) to purchase food and drink, but I took our hosts to a restaurant which they recommended and on the menu was bear steak at around the ?100 mark probably double that now, I didn't participate although I know someone who did and he said it was a fatty grissly lump almost revoltingly inedible, and uncuttable, he wished he had had the chicken.

My gut feeling is to say fear not fair 'Mucks' your fears are totally unfounded and I should very much doubt there is any scam involved.

For cheap crossings there is (was) a Finnish Seamens Mission in Rotherhythe which may make travelling to and fro more interesting and with discounts. I drove my car onto a freighter and parked up amongst a load of new tractors being shipped there. We went through the Kiel canal which took a few days each way but I think it was good value and would cost much less as a foot passenger. They didn't have many passengers about a half a dozen was all and you ate your meals with the crew and there was an unmanned bar which you helped your self and wrote on a ticket what you had

drunk, at the end of the voyage the tickets were added up and settled for cash.

[Ladymuck]

> ...I personally think he (lordmuck) has no problems

> with his bag of cash to the cleaner...

>... My gut feeling is to say fear not fair 'Mucks'

> your fears are totally unfounded and I should very

> much doubt there is any scam involved.

Music to my bewildered and befuddled ears, acumenman. Thanks for the lengthy response.

When I read a post like this I am driven to simply follow my intuition and - as many of you have opined - just "go for it". Cue another long discussion with hubby over skype again later tonight.

[sophiesofa]

Blimey what a toughie.

If it were me I'd probably do something ridiculous to make myself feel like I'd tried; such as make a video on my phone of me (well my arm) placing the money on the side and locking the door and leaving the main door etc. I'm not recommending that by the way, as it proves nothing, but probably what i'd do!

How about he sends another email saying something about how he's never encountered anything like this as it's not the way in the UK and he stupidly mentioned it to his wife, who is now worried and insisting on receiving a receipt in person or something, so it doesn't sound like he's the one being 'awkward'. Then ask if it's possible to find out what time the cleaner would be in, in-case it's possible to find a good time to give the money and receive a receipt in person.

[Mick Mac]

A receipt from the cleaner. I'm sorry but I think this will be money for the boys/girls and not much money for the hotel and a room sorted for hubby some way or other by the people who pocketed the cash.

I guess I don't trust ...... I guess I'm not well travelled and therefore I can only think from my UK experience, but I know what I would do especially if a one month stay is a lot of money.

[hibbs]

I think I would be inclined to ask the hotel if I could settle my bill on a weekly basis, therefore if I left money out for a weeks stays and god forbid it went missing it wouldn't effect me in quite the same way as a hotel bill for a months stay would. x

[Narnia]

Does hubby ever get to make a decision LM?;-)

[Ladymuck]

Yes, it really is a toughie SS: it's driving me insane in fact. Will definitely get hubby to at least get a date out of them in respect of the cleaner's visit. Are seriously thinking of simply leaving one week's dosh too, Hibbs. It will end up costing hubby more for his lodgings, but the more risk management (as per HAL) measures are in place, the more likely hubby will be willing to leave the dosh in the room (I would still like to trust - call me a mug, but it's just the way I'm made I'm afraid).

Mick Mac, you and my hubby would get on well: a couple of untrusting cynics LOL!

Now to "work" on hubby***. Decision has to be made tonight as payment due tomorrow.

Thanks for all your contributions. They really do help.

***Does that answer your question Narnia?:))

[Narnia]

Emm..........can we have the website of the said Hotel. I'd like to examine all the evidence before saying anything else!

[Annette Curtain]

Ladymuck Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Now to "work" on hubby***. Decision has to be

> made tonight as payment due tomorrow.

Roll on tomorrow I say.

:)A.

[Ladymuck]

*closes the curtain*

:))

[Ladymuck]

What's happened to my post? Sean? Admin?

[Ladymuck]

Oh Crikey...ahem...just realised...somehow sent it as a PM to some poor soul. Sorry Sean/Admin. Apologies to unsuspecting poor soul too.:-$

--------------------------

> Emm..........can we have the website of the said

> Hotel. I'd like to examine all the evidence before

> saying anything else!

You bloody well cannot! Remember this:

What if an anonymous guest (past or present) gains access to hubby's room and steals his valuables - including a large wad of cash left lying around? A dishonest person at the other end of the email conversations (or even a third party 'sniffing' the email server's traffic) could set up a burglary on demand - the victim wouldn't be able to prove anything.

[Annette Curtain]

Well, come on what's happened ?

( Oooo I love a cliff hanger me,I bet the butler done it )

:)A.

[legalbeagle]

I think the best advice you've had so far is to ask the locals hubby is working with what they would do. I think local perspective is probably the best indication of whether this is ok or a scam. If they think it's safe, then it probably is, though I'd still be inclined to only pay 2 weeks at a time, and forgo some of the discount just to be on the safe side.

[Annette Curtain]

legalbeagle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think the best advice you've had so far is to

> ask the locals hubby is working with what they

> would do.....

Bla bla...

Trouble is @L.B she's ( Ladymuck) has gone into "Tra-laa-laa" fingers in the ears, "I can't hear you" mode, thinking up infinite varieties of "ifs & buts"

She'll end up having to breathe into a brown paper bag soon, poor love.

Anyway, if the Odocoileus virginianus doesn't get a look-in in this story I'll be very, very disappointed.

:)A.

[Ladymuck]

Thank you LB, full of common sense and good advice as always.

Well, had a very, very long discussion with hubby last night and we are going to go for it.

BUT, with a number of risk management measures in place.

- Hubby emailed them vis a vis a precise day for the "collection" by the cleaner (today) - so dosh on table (as per instructions) as I type. Apparently, a receipt will appear on the desk on Wednesday.

- He has left sufficient cash for only one week.

- He has emailed them to inform them that the cash has been left as per their instructions.

Unfortunately it is too late to ask any local for their opinion(s). Also, remaining in the room in the hope of catching the cleaner is out of the question (this is a new job - no opportunity to skive off). Hubby wasn't keen to ask about any consequences should the money go missing (he thought this might provoke...).

So there you have it.

One thing that warms my heart though, is that the majority of you believe we should go for it - albeit with some damage limitation measures in place. Personally, paying the cash over makes me happier: I just didn't feel comfortable about (effectively) criminalising the hotel owners. It is a risk, there is no doubt. However, I'd like to thank ALL of you who contributed to this thread: I really was beside myself as to what we should do. You have all been of enormous help (even you, A. Curtain, for lightening up the thread and making me laugh). Thank you. We shall know more on Wednesday.

So, how about placing your bets Ladies and Gents (may as well have some fun now!).

Will the receipt be there on Wednesday?

I'm going for a: Yes.

Nervous hubby - not sure