Football Focus

[Ladymuck]

Sandperson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'd also like to say it's nice having you back!

> And United are only a few bad results away from

> financial meltdown.

It's true...on both counts.

[Annasfield]

Mick - You make me laugh. Even when I wasn't here every reference you made to Liverpool came with a snipe at Rafa and then mentioned me. You're obsessed!

I don't feel victimised or bullied, just frustrated at having to constantly justify my support to people who's opinons (in my opinion) are quite frankly laughable.

Sandperson

Keane for Liverpool

1. Season 08/09 began for us when Keane left, 33 games had been played.

2. Out of those 33 games, Keane started 23, came on as a sub in 5 and was left on the bench for 5.

3. In the 28 games Keane was involved in, he scored 7 times. 5 in the league and 2 in europe.

What has he done since leaving us? Sweet FA. He was made club captain when he went back to Spurs but yet he has probably played less since going back to Spurs than he did do with us. And has now been packed off to Celtic because he seems surplus to requirements at Spurs. Has Harry has as much abuse as Rafa over the treatment of Keane?

Aquilani

We paid ?5 million for him last summer. The rest of his fee is based on installments and appearances. Has it not occurred to anyone that Rafa isn't allowed to play him as it means we'll owe Roma more cash.

There is always a bigger picture.

[Sandperson]

Ah, my laughable opinions, or are they just different from yours?

If that's true about Aquilani then the club should really be looking at how they are run. I can't believe that.

LM, I don't actually believe that we are about to go out of business I just said it to make Anna feel better.

[Mick Mac]

Annasfield Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick - You make me laugh. Even when I wasn't here

> every reference you made to Liverpool came with a

> snipe at Rafa and then mentioned me. You're

> obsessed!

Honestly Anna - most of my points are not serious. I think its quite amusing that you support Rafa despite everything but its all intended tongue in cheek.

[Mick Mac]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick Mac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> ----->

> > Not really Jah, I was thinking more of a

> penalty

> > box poacher. Every team should have one.

>

> So you don't think Eduardo would come into that

> category? Most teams don't have them these days.

> Jermaine Defoe and Michael Owen are pretty good

> examples but I can't think of any other players

> like that at Premiership clubs. They are a dying

> breed.

True

But also - Eduardo is crap so I don't really notice him - Vela, who is he? Walcott and Arshavin are supoort players.

Bentner and Van Persie play further forward, thats what Arsenal have needed.

[Ladygooner]

FYI Fabregas has scored 18 and Arshavin has scored 11 goals this season in all comps

[Jah Lush]

Mick Mac Wrote:

> But also - Eduardo is crap so I don't really

> notice him.

You're having a laugh. He may play for that other team but he's a terrific player and a very good finisher.

[Mick Mac]

Ladygooner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> FYI Fabregas has scored 18 and Arshavin has scored

> 11 goals this season in all comps

And?

[Mick Mac]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick Mac Wrote:

>

>

> > But also - Eduardo is crap so I don't really

> > notice him.

>

> You're having a laugh. He may play for that other

> team but he's a terrific player and a very good

> finisher.

He does not seem to be good enough to get in the team Jah - read into that what you like.

[benjaminty]

It's a shame to say it but I honestly think that Benitez is not quite the ticket any more. When he first joined Liverpool he had the air of someone who was up for the challange and positive in everything he did and said and commanded some respect. Nowadays I can't help but feel a little sorry for him, he does look like he is carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.

It got to the point a while ago in a new conference that a Spanish reporter asked him why he was so fat, which is so uncalled for it's not true but he wearily tried to laugh it off. I just think he's had enough and isn't quite up for the challenge any more. Can you imagine any other Premiership manager taking sh*t like that from any reporter?

I'm not having a pop for pops sake I honestly think he's had enough and that's a shame for the premiership as a whole.

[jimmy two times]

Mourinho is lying in wait.

[Sandperson]

His relationship with players is also not the best from what I've heard. He's a bit too 'hands off' for many of them.

[Annasfield]

Like I said - can't be arsed going backward and forward over the same argument. From another forum, but this sums it up perfectly for me.

I watched the reds go down to chelsea in the champions league. After Torres scored I was on cloud nine and after the game I was fairly pissed off (obviously) at the result. I remember thinking at the time that I really shouldn't be that annoyed - for a start, if anyone could organise a team to win at the bridge it was Rafa; but my main thought was that I had been privileged to watch a transformation in our side - we had gone from a once proud club who had conquered all before us home and abroad to a laughing stock. "Champions league - you're having a laugh". One man turned this around.

His detractors said it was a fluke and that we were lucky. Lucky Rafa then led us to the knockout stages in 06, another final in 07, and knockout stages in 08 and 09.

During this time we beat juve, real, barca, inter, milan - giants of the game. Top ranked in europe, a name to be feared in the draw.

It's only 11 months since then. Not even one year. Yet some so-called fans are calling for Rafas head. I know he has made mistakes but I can't for the life of me understand why, after all he has done for us, people want him gone so quickly. Even if he had been backed to the hilt in the transfer market he has earned another season but under the current circumstances it is a testament to him that he has stuck with us.

We didn't win at the bridge but he gave it his best shot. I felt down but not out - we'd be back there or thereabouts over the next few seasons. He has now had the rug pulled from under him financially and I reckon this will be extremely difficult to achieve - but if anyone can do it - it's Rafa.

[ruffers]

That's a good description of a regime which has peaked and is on its way downhill.

 

[Ladymuck]

Sandperson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LM, I don't actually believe that we are about to

> go out of business I just said it to make Anna

> feel better.

I know. Though the financial situation is hardly tickety boo.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Just back from a weekend in Ireland in a town full of Liverpool supporters and about 90% of them were vehemently anti-Rafa as things stand

They would sit me down and explain all the good things he has done, and how they blame the owners for the start of the decline and all the rest of it but ultimately, given the teamsheets stil l available to Rafa they think he has chosen badly and adopted tactics which have led to their downfall

Anna - I don't see why people knocking rafa should bring you to type such angry comments. We know how you and many other supporters are loyal to him - and Wenger has had several wobbly moments in recent years and I've been loyal to him against dissenting voices - but one of the differences there is people like watching Arsenal. if you are going to adopt pragmatic tactics then you had better deliver and he hasn't. Nor is there a sense after 5 years of a new, young Liverpool team which promises much, whereas at Arsenal, that promise is self-evident. It doesn't mean Arsenal will win anything but the sense of development is there

More damningly for Rafa, players such as Gerrard look as if they would crawl on broken glass to play elsewhere at the moment - there is little sense of the players supporting the manager

[jimmy two times]

Benitez has certainly delivered more then Wenger over the last 5 years in terms of silverware.

[matthew123]

Rafa should be judged by what he is doing with the players he has available - that is the only true measure for a Manager.

If given a pot full of money, is it going to change Rafa's fundamental style of 'motivation' and tactics (as recently seen at Stoke, Wigan, Lille, Fulham, Pompey, Sunderland, Reading) - and if not, is not talking to players (as revealed by Albert 'Oliver Twist' Riera) and playing cautious tactics likely to win a PL title?

Anna - the Aquilani deal has very little based on appearances, in fact it is capped at ?1m Euro should he reach 140 games. This is the bulk of the deal - http://forums.lfconline.com/showthread.php?t=91854 / http://www.asroma.it/UserFiles/988.pdf:

- - 5 million EURO upfront

- - 3 million EURO by 4th January 2010

- - 7 million EURO by June 30th 2010

- - 5 million EURO by June 30th 2011.

I think the reason Aquilani is not in the team is because it is same role played by Steven Gerrard which IMO is same reason Robbie Keane failed (out of position) although from those 33 games I doubt a full set of fingers would be needed to count how many were for a full 90 minutes (let alone more than 62 minutes).

[Sharon_H]

Annasfield Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Like I said - can't be arsed going backward and

> forward over the same argument. From another

> forum, but this sums it up perfectly for me.

>

> I watched the reds go down to chelsea in the

> champions league. After Torres scored I was on

> cloud nine and after the game I was fairly pissed

> off (obviously) at the result. I remember thinking

> at the time that I really shouldn't be that

> annoyed - for a start, if anyone could organise a

> team to win at the bridge it was Rafa; but my main

> thought was that I had been privileged to watch a

> transformation in our side - we had gone from a

> once proud club who had conquered all before us

> home and abroad to a laughing stock. "Champions

> league - you're having a laugh". One man turned

> this around.

>

> His detractors said it was a fluke and that we

> were lucky. Lucky Rafa then led us to the knockout

> stages in 06, another final in 07, and knockout

> stages in 08 and 09.

>

> During this time we beat juve, real, barca, inter,

> milan - giants of the game. Top ranked in europe,

> a name to be feared in the draw.

>

> It's only 11 months since then. Not even one year.

> Yet some so-called fans are calling for Rafas

> head. I know he has made mistakes but I can't for

> the life of me understand why, after all he has

> done for us, people want him gone so quickly. Even

> if he had been backed to the hilt in the transfer

> market he has earned another season but under the

> current circumstances it is a testament to him

> that he has stuck with us.

>

> We didn't win at the bridge but he gave it his

> best shot. I felt down but not out - we'd be back

> there or thereabouts over the next few seasons. He

> has now had the rug pulled from under him

> financially and I reckon this will be extremely

> difficult to achieve - but if anyone can do it -

> it's Rafa.

>

Is how I feel too. One bad season and some people want him out, it's laughable.

[Narnia]

Sounds like Liverpool need to just beat Nottingham Forest and all will be well for Rafa afterwards! Obscure comment I know but you're a bright lot.

[red devil]

*scratches head waiting for lightbulb moment...*

Eureka!..Rafa must stay!

[matthew123]

Narnia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sounds like Liverpool need to just beat Nottingham

> Forest and all will be well for Rafa afterwards!

> Obscure comment I know but you're a bright lot.

Hmmm well Liverpool do have a player with the [surname] initials MR....

[titch juicy]

Sharon_H Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Annasfield Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Like I said - can't be arsed going backward and

> > forward over the same argument. From another

> > forum, but this sums it up perfectly for me.

> >

> > I watched the reds go down to chelsea in the

> > champions league. After Torres scored I was on

> > cloud nine and after the game I was fairly

> pissed

> > off (obviously) at the result. I remember

> thinking

> > at the time that I really shouldn't be that

> > annoyed - for a start, if anyone could organise

> a

> > team to win at the bridge it was Rafa; but my

> main

> > thought was that I had been privileged to watch

> a

> > transformation in our side - we had gone from a

> > once proud club who had conquered all before us

> > home and abroad to a laughing stock. "Champions

> > league - you're having a laugh". One man turned

> > this around.

> >

> > His detractors said it was a fluke and that we

> > were lucky. Lucky Rafa then led us to the

> knockout

> > stages in 06, another final in 07, and knockout

> > stages in 08 and 09.

> >

> > During this time we beat juve, real, barca,

> inter,

> > milan - giants of the game. Top ranked in

> europe,

> > a name to be feared in the draw.

> >

> > It's only 11 months since then. Not even one

> year.

> > Yet some so-called fans are calling for Rafas

> > head. I know he has made mistakes but I can't

> for

> > the life of me understand why, after all he has

> > done for us, people want him gone so quickly.

> Even

> > if he had been backed to the hilt in the

> transfer

> > market he has earned another season but under

> the

> > current circumstances it is a testament to him

> > that he has stuck with us.

> >

> > We didn't win at the bridge but he gave it his

> > best shot. I felt down but not out - we'd be

> back

> > there or thereabouts over the next few seasons.

> He

> > has now had the rug pulled from under him

> > financially and I reckon this will be extremely

> > difficult to achieve - but if anyone can do it

> -

> > it's Rafa.

> >

>

> Is how I feel too. One bad season and some people

> want him out, it's laughable.

it's not laughable

since the win he's gone backwards every season in the champions league

2005 won

2007 runner up

2008 semi final

2009 quarter final

2010 group stages

you've got worse each season since 2005 in the champions league and overachieved in the league last season

at the moment you'll be lucky if you qualify for the europa league this season

how far does benitez have to drag you down before you realise he's not the right man for the job?

[Annasfield]

Oh my.

That makes complete sense TJ. Thank you for making it all clear how Sharon and I should support our team. RAFA OUT!

Interesting that our form in Europe dipped the season that Gillett and Hicks took over. Deffo Rafa's fault though. Can't believe I've been so blinkered. Thank you!

[titch juicy]

you'd think he might've built a team out of these transfers wouldn't you: this is a net outlay of about ?52m

Transfers In

Fernando Torres

July 2007

20,200,000

Alberto Aquilani

August 2009

20,000,000

Robbie Keane

July 28 2008

19,000,000

Glen Johnson

22 June 2009

17,500,000

Ryan Babel

July 2007

11,500,000

Xabi Alonso

August 20th 2004

10,750,000

Dirk Kuyt

August 18 2006

9,000,000

Albert Riera

September 1 2008

8,000,000

Andrea Dossena

July 2008

7,000,000

Peter Crouch

July 20th 2005

7,000,000

Lucas Leiva

11 May 2007

6,750,000

Jermaine Pennant

July 26 2006

6,700,000

Martin Skrtel

11 January 2008

6,500,000

Craig Bellamy

July 1st 2006

6,000,000

Jose Reina

July 4th 2005

6,000,000

Luis Garcia

August 20th 2004

6,000,000

Dan Agger

January 2006

5,800,000

Mohammed Sissoko

July 2005

5,600,000

Fernando Morientes

January 2005

5,500,000

Yossi Benayoun

July 2007

5,000,000

Diego Cavalieri

July 2008

4,000,000

Alvaro Arbeloa

January 31 2007

2,600,000

Sebastian Leto

July 2007

2,500,000

Gabriel Paletta

July 1st 2006

2,000,000

Jose Miguel Gonzalez Rey (Josemi)

July 2004

2,000,000

David Ngog

July 24 2008

1,500,000

Sotirios Kyrgiakos

21 August 2009

1,500,000

Mark Gonzalez

July 4th 2005

1,500,000

Scott Carson

January 21st 2005

750,000

Mikel San Jose

July 2007

270,000

David Martin

January 2006

250,000

Antonio Barragan

July 4th 2005

240,000

Besian Idrizaj

August 2005

190,000

Jack Hobbs

August 2005

150,000

Alex Cooper

January 2008

100,000

Alexander Kacaniklic

June 2007

75,000

Maxi Rodriguez

January 2010

0

Chris Buchtmann

January 2008

0

Philipp Degen

July 1 2008

0

Hakan Duyan

June 2008

0

Danny Guthrie

July 2005

0

Adam Hammill

January 2006

0

Gerardo Bruna

September 2007

0

Damien Plessis

August 2007

0

Peter Gulacsi

1 September 2008

0

Charles Itandje

August 2007

0

Craig Lindfield

July 2006

0

Stephen Darby

July 2006

0

Paul Anderson

January 2006

0

Lee Peltier

July 2005

0

Vincent Lucas Weijl

July 2008

0

Kristjan Gauti Emilsson

January 2010

0

Dave Moli

December 2009

0

Antonio Nunez

August 2004

0

Mauricio Pellegrino

January 2005

0

Nicolaj Beier Kohlert

July 2009

0

Chris Mavinga

July 8 2009

0

Boudewijn Zenden

July 4th 2005

0

Victor Palsson

January 2009

0

Jan Kromkamp

January 2006

0

Vitor Flora

September 1 2008

0

Fabio Aurelio

July 5 2006

0

Daniel Ayala

July 2007

0

Emmanuel Mendy

July 23 2008

0

Nikola Saric

July 2008

0

Ryan Crowther

July 2007

0

Mihail Alexandrov

July 2007

0

Dani Pacheco

July 2007

0

Steve Irwin

July 2008

0

Martin Kelly

August 2007

0

Ronald Huth

January 2007

0

Jordy Brouwer

January 2007

0

Francisco Manuel Duran

January 2007

0

Emiliano Insua

January 2007

0

Ray Putterill

June 2007

0

Martin Hansen

June 2007

0

Jay Spearing

June 2007

0

Dave Roberts

July 2006

0

Javier Mascherano

January 2007

0

David Mannix

July 2004

0

Ryan Flynn

July 2006

0

Robbie Threlfall

July 2006

0

Ramon Calliste

August 2005

0

Miki Roque

August 2005

0

Marvin Pourie

July 2007

0

Jay Smith

July 2005

0

Nikolay Mihaylov

July 2007

0

Danny O'Donnell

July 2005

0

Gary Mackay Steven

June 2007

0

Andras Simon

27 May 2007

0

Krisztian Nemeth

27 May 2007

0

Mark Smyth

June 2004

0

Andriy Voronin

July 2007

0

Nabir El Zhar

June 2006

0

Robbie Fowler

January 2006

0

Ryan Wilkie

July 2005

0

Calum Woods

January 2006

0

Paul Willis

July 2005

0

Godwin Antwi

August 2005

0

Transfers Out

Xabi Alonso

5 August 2009

30,000,000

Robbie Keane

February 1 2009

15,000,000

Peter Crouch

July 2008

11,000,000

Mohammed Sissoko

January 29 2008

8,200,000

Michael Owen

August 2004

8,000,000

Craig Bellamy

July 2007

7,500,000

Milan Baros

August 2005

6,500,000

Djibril Cisse

July 2007

6,000,000

Scott Carson

July 18 2008

4,000,000

John Arne Riise

June 2008

4,000,000

Luis Garcia

July 2007

4,000,000

Andrea Dossena

January 8 2010

3,800,000

El Hadji Diouf

June 2005

3,500,000

Chris Kirkland

January 2007

3,500,000

Mark Gonzalez

July 2007

3,500,000

Alvaro Arbeloa

29 July 2009

3,500,000

Fernando Morientes

May 2006

3,100,000

Florent Sinama-Pongolle

May 2007

2,700,000

Danny Murphy

August 2004

2,500,000

Danny Guthrie

July 2008

2,250,000

Djimi Traore

August 2006

2,000,000

Andriy Voronin

January 10 2010

2,000,000

Alou Diarra

June 2005

2,000,000

Jan Kromkamp

August 2006

2,000,000

Antonio Nunez

August 2005

2,000,000

Nikolay Mihaylov

January 2010

1,500,000

Stephen Warnock

January 2007

1,200,000

Antonio Barragan

August 2006

680,000

Neil Mellor

August 2006

500,000

Paul Anderson

June 30 2009

250,000

Darren Potter

January 2007

250,000

Chris Buchtmann

01 February 2010

100,000

Danny O'Donnell

June 2007

100,000

Jack Hobbs

May 2009

0

Dietmar Hamann

July 2006

0

Ryan Flynn

September 2009

0

Godwin Antwi

June 2009

0

Besian Idrizaj

31 January 2008

0

Sami Hyypia

30 June 2009

0

David Mannix

January 2007

0

Miki Roque

June 2009

0

Robbie Foy

May 2006

0

Dave Roberts

June 2007

0

Robbie Fowler

June 2007

0

Sebastian Leto

1 JUly 2009

0

Ryan Wilkie

May 2006

0

Calum Woods

May 2006

0

Paul Willis

May 2006

0

Gary Mackay Steven

June 2009

0

Ramon Calliste

May 2006

0

Marvin Pourie

January 2009

0

Ryan Crowther

August 2009

0

Ronald Huth

June 2009

0

Ray Putterill

June 2009

0

Mark Smyth

June 2005

0

Jay Smith

December 2007

0

David Raven

July 2006

0

Mauricio Pellegrino

June 2005

0

Gregory Vignal

July 2005

0

Jerzy Dudek

June 2007

0

Bruno Cheyrou

July 2006

0

Jose Miguel Gonzalez Rey (Josemi)

January 2006

0

Salif Diao

January 2007

0

Patrice Luzi

July 2005

0

Jon Otsemobor

June 2005

0

John Welsh

January 2006

0

Anthony Le Tallec

1 July 2008

0

Steve Finnan

September 1 2008

0

Igor Biscan

June 2005

0

Boudewijn Zenden

June 2007

0

Craig Lindfield

August 2009

0

Adam Hammill

August 2009

0

Jermaine Pennant

July 1 2009

0

Carl Medjani

July 2006

0

Paul Harrison

June 2005

0

Richie Partridge

June 2005

0

Zak Whitbread

June 2006

0

Lee Peltier

31 January 2008

0

Gabriel Paletta

August 2007

0

Vladimir Smicer

June 2005

0

Stephane Henchoz

January 2005

0

Markus Babbel

July 2004

0

Harry Kewell

June 2008

0