An apology to all the mums (and dads) Of ED

[astrid83]

Ehm, Husker - I moved to this area as it was close to where I work. Is that so hard to understand?

I think Nanny made a good point, and although I am not against kids in restaurant and cafes, I do think it's important to show consideration to both your kid and to the people around you - which most people do.

What sometimes irritates me is parents who seem to just let their children get on with it. Babies are a bit different as they are too little to understand and to be understood, but toddlers and and older children clearly understand when they are being asked something. I for one remember my parents telling me that we had to go home if I didn't behave, and I think it worked because they were strict about it.

[Otta]

Quids I'm not entirely sure a comparison between a victorian and a 21st centry East Dulwich holds much water.

Of course there have always been families in the area, but the area has gone through a massive change in the last 10-12 years. That is all good, but to then say to people who lived there before "why would you want to live in a family area like this, just move elsewhere" is pretty selfish.

East Dulwich is a big enough area with enough pubs and cafes that it should be able to cater for families and those who want to avoid families. I really don't get why anyone would have a problem with that.

[red devil]

Otta Wrote:

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> Quids I'm not entirely sure a comparison between a

> victorian and a 21st centry East Dulwich holds

> much water........ That is all good,

> but to then say to people who lived there before

> "why would you want to live in a family area like

> this, just move elsewhere" is pretty selfish.

Is Quids actually saying that?

I thought it was more akin to what Cassius was implying...

[woodrot]

if you dont like kids in pubs, then go to pubs that dont aim themselves at middle class families - there are still a few around - you dont have to move out of the area..its not going to change and we are not going to see 2 bedders come down to ?50K again ...anyway, what are you doing drinking during the day ? drinking + nightimes = party

[Otta]

Just to clarify, I wasn't aiming my while post at Quids, just the first line. Sorry that wasn't at all clear.

[Ted Max]

What this thread needs is a really stout defence of shit parenting.

[Twirly]

I wonder if part of the problem is "tolerance levels". If you don't have kids, your tolerance levels are probably fairly minimal. If you're used to your little darlings running around the house all day making as much noise as they like, then you're probably much more tolerant of what others might consider "bad behaviour". Just a thought.

[????]

Ted Max Wrote:

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> What this thread needs is a really stout defence

> of shit parenting.

I am trying to organise a flashmob of low blood sugar toddlers and 4X4 buggies to the Castle during the Ireland game if you're up for it Ted

[Chillaxed]

Ted Max Wrote:

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> What this thread needs is a really stout defence

> of shit parenting.

Agreed, this thread is just people more or less agreeing with each other. I've yet to see a parent justify letting his or her kids run riot in the pub, or a punter justify glassing the first parent who dares enter their local. Maybe we all get along after all.

[Ted Max]

???? Wrote:

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> I am trying to organise a flashmob of low blood

> sugar toddlers and 4X4 buggies to the Castle

> during the Ireland game if you're up for it Ted

Fuckyeah. I'm up for changing some nappies on the pool table if you take care of the "asking the shouty man at the bar to moderate his language" end of things. StraferJ can ask the nice lady to pop the butternut squash puree in the microwave for a few seconds.

[Pickle]

Twirly Wrote:

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> I wonder if part of the problem is "tolerance

> levels". If you don't have kids, your tolerance

> levels are probably fairly minimal. If you're used

> to your little darlings running around the house

> all day making as much noise as they like, then

> you're probably much more tolerant of what others

> might consider "bad behaviour". Just a thought.

Nah, since having kids of my own it's made me dislike children in general a whole lot more ;-)

[The Minkey]

"I wonder if part of the problem is "tolerance levels". If you don't have kids, your tolerance levels are probably fairly minimal. If you're used to your little darlings running around the house all day making as much noise as they like, then you're probably much more tolerant of what others might consider "bad behaviour". Just a thought."

I'm sure there are plenty of parents whose kids run around the house making as much noise as they like who encourage their children to behave appropriately when out and about in public. Teaching kids how to behave in public is all part of good parenting. It's a shame for those who don't get this kind of guidance because they end up being perceived as being obnoxious and brattish.

Last Sunday I was in the Coop on Forest Hill Rd, with kids riding their scooters up and down the aisles. The aisles are narrow so it was just a little annoying to have to keep stepping out of their way to avoid being rammed.

[LondonMix]

2nd what Pickle and Minkey said :)

Everyone (including adults) sometimes need to remember there is inside behaviour and outside behaviour!

[Cassius]

Cassius Wrote:

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> Husker Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Kids go into pubs - some of them are annoying,

> > some of them aren't. Just like adults really.

> >

> > Why anyone lives somewhere like East Dulwich, a

> > part of London that is known for the density of

> > young families and the cafes/pubs/restaurants

> that

> > cater for them, and then moans about kids is

> > beyond me.

>

> Funnily enough East Dulwich and some of its

> residents were here BEFORE it became a mecca for

> young families.

The point I was trying to make was that when I moved to ED it was a far more mixed area than it is now - there were of course families and young children but the bars, restaurants and cafes (although to be honest there weren't many of those) were not predominently childfriendly. I see nothing wrong with the mix there is now, but the area is not the same social mix now as it was when I chose to buy here, and therefore I did not chose to live in an area that is well know for its high density of families - it has become that over the years.

[Mick Mac]

Families - bloody hell - I'm glad I never had one or was party to one of those ;)

People have to remember

1) We were all children once and we all tried our best to behave. Its not easy for the children with all that energy, or the parents who try to continue to keep up the pretence of a normal life, whilst looking after them.

2) Lots of us will have to supervise children at some point, either as parents or grandparents.

If you don't have children in your life at the moment, then its just not your time. But they are part of life and they are much nicer than many adults, who are often selfish tw*ts, without the same excuses.

Give children a break, especially in London, they don't get a lot of time out of the house.

[Voyageur]

We had a somewhat overwhelming (well for us anyway) experience at the Pizza Express in Dulwich a couple of years ago. After a long walk in the park we decided to go for a Pizza at around 6'ish on a Sunday. When we entered we found that about 50 percent of the clientele were toddlers, a fair proportion of them in jim-jams presumably for a streamlined meal/bed-time experience, and the noise levels were awseomely high. We asked if we could try upstairs as it was pretty empty (and where we would at least be able to hear each other speak) but after about 10 minutes the place was full of parents with toddlers too. We fled in search of a more relaxing environment.

We haven't been back - we know when we are beaten.

[Husker]

Otta Wrote:

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> no one on this thread has moaned about kids.

What? When you write stuff like: "these inconsiderate parents are so noticeable, that people tend to tar all parents with the same brush....I can't for the life of me understand why people take their kids to the pub. I can't relax in the pub when my kids are there.....When I see small babies left in prams for ages, even when they cry, I want to scream at parents "Pick him/her up for the love of God!" --- that's moaning in my book.

Don't get me wrong. I'm with everyone else - parents should remove disruptive kids and they shouldn't be there after 7pm, but not only has the area changed in the last 10-12 years, but so has society, which means you see plenty of kids in pubs these days.

If you don't like that, don't go to places that target families. Don't go to The Herne or The Actress, but go to House of Tippler or The Castle instead. Or go in the evening. Or if you go in the Actress, sit on the righthand side.

Or here's an idea...accept that society has changed, that kids go in pubs and if you don't like that, socialise in each others homes ;-)

[Voyageur]

Husker Wrote:

> Don't get me wrong. I'm with everyone else -

> parents should remove disruptive kids and they

> shouldn't be there after 7pm,

That's it sorted though - if followed through.

[Otta]

Kids are kids, they can't help it. I was moaning about CERTAIN parents.

[canela]

this thread is why myself and the vast majority of my mum friends just never go to cafes or pubs with kids! I am not going to take my kids somewhere they will be bored and tutted at. Plus you have to remortgage your home to go out for a meal for four these days. personally i don't know who all these socialising parents are....most people take sandwiches and a thermos. we are the undercover mums....beware the day we rise from our picnic blanket (and yes you can have a picnic in the winter)!

[????]

I fondly remember cokes and crisps in the car outside a pub for what seemed like hours on Saturday lunchtimes in the early 70s.....the good old days

[Otta]

Like!

Sitting in the corner of the lounge bar of the CPT with my sister drinking lemonade & lime and eating crisps. And the old garden at the OLD plough, when it was grassy.

[eco79]

Canela,

You've said what I've been thinking all thread. Going out for dinner when we were little happened maybe 2/3 times a year. My mum and dad had loads of us, and it was SUCH a treat, if we'd misbehaved my mum would have been distraught...as it was a treat for her too. She normally made an entire Rathbone's loaf of butties and we shared can drinks between us by counting how many sips the other siblings had taken!

I wonder whether increasing affluence has brought this change in our community about? My little fella has been to numerous Sunday Roasts in pubs [always well managed, usually in a sling having a nap!], but we're the only people with a baby in our group of friends. But as soon as our children are [hopefully] numerous, we will be the buttie brigade too.

[Otta]

Very good point about the change in affluence. Eating out has become nothing particularly special (unless you are going to a mega expensive place).

Even take aways used to be an occasional treat for a special occasion.

[maxxi]

Possibly because the increasing bleakness of staring at one another over a congealing home-cooked nigella is marginally worse than repeating "isn't it great to get out" and saying "lovely" to a bored p/t minimum wager as a plate of warmed-up under seasoned slop is deposited close to ones lap.

Treats aint what they were.