London Overground line extension timetable

[antantant]

I am not "margnailly" worse off, I am significantly worse off. I know this is down to my perosnal circumstances, and as I have said before in this thread, I'm all about the greater good. I totally understand it's not just about me and I'm swimming against the tide.

But please, do not say that the effect of halving my service and at least tripling my commute when things to wrong and at off peak times is "marginal".

[LondonMix]

By marginal, I simply mean that you would have a 20-30 min journey (if you miss your train or during the evening)rather than being cut-off entirely from areas that you want or need to get to. That level of inconvenience in no way is a justification for either not doing the Thameslink works or for building a new Victoria-Bellingham line which is why I called them marginal and why I can't see a reasonable justification for complaining about what's happening.

[Zebedee Tring]

Surely no building would be involved in a new Victoria-Bellingham line - only extra or diverted trains to run the service. This would go some way to compensate for the loss of the SLL, at least for DH and PR passengers, and can't be too expensive.

[LondonMix]

Yes, you are right you don't need to create new infrastructure. The truth is that National Rail who is sponsoring the Thameslink work proposed that the Victoria-Bellingham service be brought in to mitigate the loss of the SLL. However, the Department for Transportation offered TFL the money it would save by not introducing the Victoria-Bellingham option as funding for completing the ELLX.

The SLL under all circumstances had to close. However, from the DfT's perspective it would fund either the ELLX or the Victoria-Bellingham service, not both. Transport for London chose the ELLX. Which brings greater benefits to the area? On balance, I would say the ELLX in light of all of the above. However, we have to wait to see if there are capacity issues to be sure. If there are issues, then we will have a strong case for campaigning for the introduction of the supplementary services.

[benmorg]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

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> justification for either not doing the Thameslink

> works or for building a new Victoria-Bellingham

> line >

>

> Surely no building would be involved in a new

> Victoria-Bellingham line - only extra or diverted

> trains to run the service. This would go some way

> to compensate for the loss of the SLL, at least

> for DH and PR passengers, and can't be too

> expensive.

Exactly.

[benmorg]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Yes, you are right you don't need to create new

> infrastructure. The truth is that National Rail

> who is sponsoring the Thameslink work proposed

> that the Victoria-Bellingham service be brought in

> to mitigate the loss of the SLL. However, the

> Department for Transportation offered TFL the

> money it would save by not introducing the

> Victoria-Bellingham option as funding for

> completing the ELLX.

>

> The SLL under all circumstances had to close.

> However, from the DfT's perspective it would fund

> either the ELLX or the Victoria-Bellingham

> service, not both. Transport for London chose the

> ELLX. Which brings greater benefits to the area?

> On balance, I would say the ELLX in light of all

> of the above. However, we have to wait to see if

> there are capacity issues to be sure. If there

> are issues, then we will have a strong case for

> campaigning for the introduction of the

> supplementary services.

Closure of SLL is no reason to stop Victoria services, as you explain. Another reason for blocking the Bellingham-Victoria service via Denmark Hill is that passengers will be forced to use the new overground service instead which will mean more flattering user statistics that appear to justify the investment.

[EDdownunder]

I like the idea of the ELLX2 very much as I would like to be able to travel around london other than by bus, although a little disappointed it doesn't run through Brixton. It seems like it was the cheapest option for the poor cousins south of the river. The option of either the ELLX2 or the Vic-Bellingham really stinks as an "option", thats a bit like offering a little child one story or two before bedtime. Sure your making an offer but its a little disingenuous.

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, you are right you don't need to create new

> infrastructure. The truth is that National Rail

> who is sponsoring the Thameslink work proposed

> that the Victoria-Bellingham service be brought in

> to mitigate the loss of the SLL. However, the

> Department for Transportation offered TFL the

> money it would save by not introducing the

> Victoria-Bellingham option as funding for

> completing the ELLX.

>

> The SLL under all circumstances had to close.

> However, from the DfT's perspective it would fund

> either the ELLX or the Victoria-Bellingham

> service, not both. Transport for London chose the

> ELLX. Which brings greater benefits to the area?

> On balance, I would say the ELLX in light of all

> of the above. However, we have to wait to see if

> there are capacity issues to be sure. If there

> are issues, then we will have a strong case for

> campaigning for the introduction of the

> supplementary services.

[LondonMix]

I think we would all prefer both the ELLX and the Victoria-Bellingham service- I know I would along with an extension of the Bakerloo line etc! However, on balance, I think the ELLX will be a bigger benefit to the area and more importantly, now that the works have beend done and its part of a larger orbital its unlikely to be withdrawn even if once up and running it turns out we do need more Victoria trains and sucessfully campaign for them.

I think campaigning for the Victoria-Bellingham service, if there ends up being a demonstrable need for it, will be much easier to implement and won't result in the closure of the ELL. If we had gotten just the Victoria-Bellingham service, I think it would be much harder to then squeeze the money from the government to do the ELLX given the current strain on finances if you see what I mean.

In the end, I think the right decision was made given limitted funding but like I've said before, it's clearly a trade-off.

[James Barber]

Hi LondonMix,

Fingers crossed you're right and it doesn't see an exodus from more mobile residents from Camberwell.

Bakerloo line extension and similar. These will always be hard to make happen with current local taxation. In ideal world it would be much easier to commit more local tax receipts to fund things. Govt has now given this option but its still overly prescriptive.

[Bic Basher]

There would have been been extra services from DH and PR to Victoria from Kent in the winter timetable during the peak, but it was the pressure from those Kent commuters who pay a lot more for season tickets who put the pressure on the DfT to not allow Southeastern to add two more stations to their fast trains.

James, are you seriously saying the reduction of a 2tph rail service for the ELL could lead to residents leaving Camberwell? I don't see a mass exodus of people from Hackney who have just the Overground and a high frequency bus service.

[antantant]

Hackney still has at least 10 trains per hour to Liverpool Street, does it not? Not really a fair comparison. Take away that link and see if they like their busses then.

[The Urbanite]

If anyone uses the South London Line and currently pays ?10.30 for a weekly season ticket for stations between Queens Road Peckham and Wandsworth Road inclusive, note that from the fares change in January, these season tickets will be removed from general sale. London Overground are not in favour of point to point season tickets. Alternative options are as follows;

1. Use Oyster Pay As You Go. A Zone 2 - Zone 2 peak single will be ?1.70, so up to ?3.40 a day or ?17.00 a week to commute. This is a fixed weekly price, whereas the weekly price of a season ticket is reduced if bought for one month or longer. The Off Peak single is ?1.50, so even if you make a return trip at Off Peak times 4 or 5 days a week, there is still a significant increase in the cost of commuting on the way.

2. Buy a Zone 2 Only Travelcard for ?23.00 a week (same price as a Zone 2-3 Travelcard)

3. Instead of buying a season ticket between your usual stations (i.e Wandsworth Road to Denmark Hill,) buy it to South Bermondsey instead. Season tickets to South Bermondsey will still be available for ?10.60 a week. With season tickets, you are permitted to start/finish your journey at any intermediate station on the line of route.

[Bic Basher]

antantant Wrote:

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> Hackney still has at least 10 trains per hour to

> Liverpool Street, does it not? Not really a fair

> comparison. Take away that link and see if they

> like their busses then.

At least try and spell buses right.

I still think there's similarities considering DH and PR are not in the built up residential areas of Camberwell and Peckham and they do rely on buses.

The season ticket withdrawal by LO is scandalous though, they're a national rail Train Operating Company and should sell the cheapest season tickets possible, although it appears as TfL are to be in charge of the SLL from Sunday, they want you to buy their products, alas the more expensive Travelcard.

[antantant]

Wow. Spelling. You showed me.

Glossing over the fact that you're making a comparison between somewhere that will have minimal trains per hour in off peak to somewhere that has 10 trains per hour in off peak gunning to Liverpool Street in 6 minutes.

Well played.

[RosieH]

Bic Basher Wrote:

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>

> At least try and spell buses right.

>

> I still think there's similarities considering

"there's similarities"? Let he who is without sin smash the first greenhouse and all that...

[Renata Hamvas]

For those of you who use season tickets from PR or DH to Victoria/Thameslink, you will still be able to buy them from Nunhead.

Renata

[edcam]

Bic Basher Wrote:

although it appears as TfL are

to be in charge of the SLL from Sunday,

This is also grammatically incorrect. Bad spelling is one evil, bad grammar is another.

[Trips]

Hi all

If i am coming from Canada Water on the new Overground and I change at Peckham Rye for the North Dulwich Train, will it be a platform miles away or the one opposite?

thanks for the info

[TB2]

And still buy them from Denmark Hill / Peckham Rye to London Terminals - it is only season tickets internal to the section of route between Wandsworth Road and Queens Road Peckham that are affected.

[Lowlander]

Trips Wrote:

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> Hi all

>

> If i am coming from Canada Water on the new

> Overground and I change at Peckham Rye for the

> North Dulwich Train, will it be a platform miles

> away or the one opposite?

>

> thanks for the info

The timetable indicates that they're adjacent platforms - so just a 2 metre walk - http://traintimes.org.uk/canada+water/north+dulwich/13:00/2012-12-10

[The Urbanite]

TB2 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And still buy them from Denmark Hill / Peckham Rye

> to London Terminals - it is only season tickets

> internal to the section of route between

> Wandsworth Road and Queens Road Peckham that are

> affected.

Also to Clapham Junction, Imperial Wharf and Kensington Olympia.

For example, anyone commuting between Denmark Hill and Clapham Junction via Battersea Park for ?10.30 a week will find that in January, the next cheapest season ticket will be a more expensive one for ?18.00 a week that factors in travelling via Zone 1 (Victoria.) Even though trains will avoid Central London when running to and from Clapham Junction. This ticket only remains because South Eastern will be running services between Denmark Hill and Victoria.

The majority of people may commute into London Terminals, but there are still people who both live and work within the catchment area of the line outside of Central London.

[mikeb]

Lowlander, I think your link showed leaving CW on platform 3, arriving PR on unknown platform, leaving platform PR from 1 and arriving ND on platform 2.

Does anyone know which platforms the Overground trains will use? i.e. 1 and 2 (the ones that used to be the SLL platforms) or 3 and 4, which were for fast trains to Victoria?

[gm99]

I have seen the ELL trains at PR using platforms 1 and 2 (during testing). This makes sense as the new line joins the existing PR - London Bridge route between Queen's Road Peckham and South Bermondsey.

[Lowlander]

mikeb Wrote:

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> Lowlander, I think your link showed leaving CW on

> platform 3, arriving PR on unknown platform,

> leaving platform PR from 1 and arriving ND on

> platform 2.

>

> Does anyone know which platforms the Overground

> trains will use? i.e. 1 and 2 (the ones that used

> to be the SLL platforms) or 3 and 4, which were

> for fast trains to Victoria?

Hmm, it should show platform 1. In other words the ELLX trains use the same platforms as the London Bridge platforms, not the Victoria ones.

[Bic Basher]

antantant Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Wow. Spelling. You showed me.

>

> Glossing over the fact that you're making a

> comparison between somewhere that will have

> minimal trains per hour in off peak to somewhere

> that has 10 trains per hour in off peak gunning to

> Liverpool Street in 6 minutes.

>

> Well played.

Christ, it's UDT' on his 200th username on EDF!

I'm sure those people who don't frequent EDF to be a smart arse with every post or an expert in pedantry (or trolling) will adjust to the changes in services from Sunday. If not, I'm sure they'll take on board Cllr Barber's concern to sell up in their droves to somewhere where they can get a train into town without an interchange despite other public transport options.

Good luck with the change in your journey patterns next week, I hope it isn't too much of a strain to board the existing trains to Victoria or experiment with the interchanges at Clapham High St/North or Junction if travelling to Victoria.