Denmark Hill station: Beyond a joke

[Nigello]

While I agree that the station must be improved, I can't go along with the idea that it is somehow OK for people to run for a train and not use designated crossing places. I see that the crossing and/or bus stop are not best placed, but it really is incumbent on the individual to ensure they are crossing safely, even if that means they may miss a train. Way too many people - including mothers with children in their arms/on their backs/in buggies - dash across roads seemingly with a death wish. And as for pedestrian visibility at night, gah......!

[redjam]

I agree - it's not OK at all (though I admit I've occasionally been guilty of doing it myself). But if the bus stop were better situated there'd be no temptation to do it.

[cle]

Those stats are interesting and not surprising - it does have 8 Overground, 6 Southeastern and 4 Thameslink trains stopping each hour. And more trains in the peaks - plus a lot of people interchanging too.

I read somewhere that 2 more Overground trains are planned per hour in each direction too, and they are 5 cars now so that probably encourages use also.

Overall it's gone from a suburban station to something of a mini-hub, and the infrastructure to support that hasn't kept up.

[EDOldie]

More evidence of why an extension of the Bakerloo line to Camberwell is so desperately needed.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Tru dat

[Bic Basher]

Considering the ELL extension has been on the cards for years, it's surprising that the design really doesn't cater for the massive spike in new passengers.

With the additional one train per hour from Kent, designed to be an interchange for Kent passengers to use the Overground instead of travelling to Victoria to get to the likes of Canary Wharf, the station still appears to be one big mess.

Forest Hill at least as mentioned has two entrances, which at least evens out the passenger flow.

The least Thameslink can do is at least add another ticket machine for Oyster. If East Dulwich can have two machines and is less used than Denmark Hill, so can they.

It's also worth noting that since earlier this year, Southern and Thameslink are brands of one overall train company, Govia Thameslink Railway. Same management, different brands, so in reality Denmark Hill, Peckham Rye and East Dulwich are all operated by the same company.

[FACEBOOK]

Fredjam Wrote:

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> According to the official stats, the number of

> passengers using Denmark Hill has gone up from 3.7

> million in 2011-12 to 5.16 million in 2013-14,

> plus another 100,000 using it as an interchange.

> No wonder it seems more overcrowded.

>

> ...clearly it needs several

> more barriers and ticket machines, judging by the

> queues in the morning.

Looking at these up to date figures, it makes you wonder how they pass the annual fire and safety checks. I wonder if these latest figures have been revealed. I'm surprised it isn't in breach of fire regulations.

Why are Thameslink putting commuters lives at risk?

[JohnL]

Thameslink are actually removing trains from the network now to reduce congestion.

Something is really not right - Is it still knock on issues from London Bridge.

[Michael Palaeologus]

It would seem that a bigger station building is needed. Perhaps the size of the original station building, which is now a pub and a caf?.

The easiest option would be to build a new entrance and exit on the opposite side of the current station and so ease pressure. Long term, bigger main entrance or possibly a second entrance on the current entrance side but one that gives direct access/ exit to the new overhead walk-way.

[FACEBOOK]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Thameslink are actually removing trains from the

> network now to reduce congestion.

>

> Something is really not right - Is it still knock

> on issues from London Bridge.

But that would require a radical overview and new timetable, something that will take time and disrupt the network.

Meanwhile where will these train divert to?

[JohnL]

FACEBOOK Wrote:

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>

> But that would require a radical overview and new

> timetable, something that will take time and

> disrupt the network.

> Meanwhile where will these train divert to?

From their website below - sounds like the railway equivalent of emergency powers.

I'm sure they would love to merge the two north bound trains (St Albans and Bedford) just after 9:00 to one.

The first one always comes after the second is scheduled.

"Due to poor punctuality during autumn, and the very busy nature of the service, Thameslink have worked with Network Rail to temporarily remove a number of off-peak services from the timetable. This is to help reduce congestion on the network, so that a more reliable service can be provided overall. This will continue until Friday 27 November, on a one week trial.

Seven off peak services each way between Brighton and London Bridge will run between Brighton and Gatwick Airport only, and two services will not run. Additional station stops have been added into other Thameslink or Southern trains to provide travel alternatives. Ticket acceptance is in place so Southern and Thameslink passengers can use each others services between London and Brighton.

Thameslink state that they have considered these temporary changes carefully to minimise the impact on passengers. Thameslink will review the effect they have on overall punctuality during this week, and assess if they should continue up until the timetable change on 13 December when a new off peak timetable pattern is due to be introduced."

[85volga]

I have a crazy solution ...............

Lets decamp the "Phoenix" pub from the original train station entrance, return it to its original purpose to be the main Denmark hill train station entrance and in addition to the newly created one it should be able to just cope with the congestion.

after all it is a train station, not a Pub

[FACEBOOK]

85volga Wrote:

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> I have a crazy solution ...............

>

> Lets decamp the "Phoenix" pub

I know, let's have a sit -in, or wait until Spring and chain ourselves to the railings?

[civilservant]

85volga Wrote:

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> I have a crazy solution ...............

>

> Lets decamp the "Phoenix" pub from the original

> train station entrance, return it to its original

not crazy at all, an excellent solution!

but not likely to happen any time soon, I fear, given that Network Rail, the NHS etc are being encouraged to lease or sell off 'unproductive' estate to fund activity and deliver savings...

[spider69]

How about getting rid of the coffee shop? People always went thru there in the past.

The pub has been there before many of todays commuters turned up on the scene.

[Jeremy]

spider69 Wrote:

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> How about getting rid of the coffee shop?

This!

Getting rid of a the pub would be a complete waste of a good space.

[civilservant]

True, and it does create its own congestion, with people queuing for their morning latte or wandering into the oncoming commuter hordes carrying their cups of dangerously hot liquid!

I use the Thameslink service for its convenience - if I manage to squeeze onto a train at PRye or DH, i can get to the Elephant in 5-10 minutes. I could of course take a bus for the same journey, but that means that I'd have to spend 30-40 minutes travelling instead.

How many of the commuter hordes, like me, are shaving minutes off their commute by crowding into DH station? I bet there'd be many fewer if Camberwell and the Walworth Road were less congested with white vans, builders' lorries, school drop-offs and slow cyclists in the bus lanes!

[Applespider]

Denmark Hill does have particular challenges that Forest Hill etc don't face. Most of the other local stations are busy 'inwards' in the morning and busy 'outwards' at night so when looking at ones with similar footfall, it's probably easy to say that 4 barriers/width of passageways/entrances is OK - since usually you'd have 3 one way and 1 the other. Denmark Hill in the morning has huge numbers arriving as well as departing.

The queues only really appear at Denmark Hill for the 5 minutes after a train arrives. Then it clears and it's easy to get through again until the next one comes in.

[The Urbanite]

I commute to Victoria anytime between around 0815 and 0845, so quite grateful that hordes of people heading to Kings/Camberwell disgorge at DH. The station can't cope with the volumes of people arriving and departing. It's a pity really, as in recent years the journey opportunities have been transformed with London Overground, through Thameslink services and more capacity to Victoria/all day Dartford services. As lucky as we are to have two cross London routes and the rest, the station refurbishment design was a hatched job. It doesn't help when the barriers are in operation, exacerbating the crowding problems.

Yesterday morning I aimed for the 0807. I usually beeline for the front carriage. As luck would have it, there was a last minute platform change - very irritating, though admittedly the first one I've experienced since I started commuting in September. The stairwell and platform was so crowded that the doors shut and the train went before I could reach the platform. Right pain in the rear, though we're lucky enough to get 6 trains between 8 and 9 which are never on time, but do generally arrive at fairly even intervals.

As for the buses, some mornings literally seven buses go by with no room to pick up any passengers. I can't even rely on the combined 40/176/185/484 service to get as far as Camberwell, let alone having the nerve to hope for space on a 185 to take me into Victoria!

On weekends I trade the office for a driver's cabin - on Sunday I'm driving the rail replacement bus between Denmark Hill and Bromley South via the Herne Hill - Beckenham Junction line stations. Makes a change, driving through the local area and roads I'm familiar with!

[JohnL]

spider69 Wrote:

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> How about getting rid of the coffee shop? People

> always went thru there in the past.

>

> The pub has been there before many of todays

> commuters turned up on the scene.

Since 1980 - After the fire the Phoenix rose :)

I think it was originally for the medics to have a drink

[Penguin68]

When I used to commute in Chelsea in the 70s Sloane Square tube station had a small bar actually at platform level - the west bound platform. Great. Maybe the pub could move 'downstairs'.

[FACEBOOK]

The station coffee shop wanted ?1.60 for a SMALL tea.

I went back to the hospital shop were all sizes, small medium or a large cup of tea all cost the same price of 90p.

[healey]

The situation is indeed laughable. There's a great big station building out front and instead everyone gets shoehorned though the new side entrance. It's a mess.

[Lynne]

No one staffing East Dulwich this afternoon so went to Denmark Hill. Ticket office closed there and ticket machine out of order. (Question- how do people actually buy tickets?)

Had to go to Victoria just to speak to a human being.

[edcam]

Jeremy Wrote:

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>

> Getting rid of a the pub would be a complete waste

> of a good space.

Have you not used the station lately? That pub space would solve much of the problem.