Woman stabbed in Peckham last night (Lounged)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

bignumber5 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And if I stick my head a really long way into the

> sand, I can't see anything bad at all...

I can not invent things that I have not seen! I heard recently about an "incident" in Bexleyheath..9 months ago there was a murder only 5 minutes drive away but if there was a problem I'm sure either I or other Guys living in the area would have commented on it at some point..The fact is that this area is considerably safer,whether you wish to accept that is a different thing altogether.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

taper Wrote:

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> Not sure the "vibe" was

> particularly good for people like Stephen

> Lawrence.

That disgusting incident was in 1993...15 years ago.

There have been many equally tragic deaths like Scott Osbournes (kicked to death outside Lewisham Tescos by 5 youths) within a 6 mile radius of Stephen's death over the last 15 years..The "vibe" was not good for any of those victims either!

[Horsebox]

snorky Wrote:

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> bad feeling about the way this is going

Yes, me too.

Something to do with "ordinary decent people".

Speaking of which, Louisa, can you please provide a link to the figure that your Thames valley friend gave you? The one about London being a million miles ahead of other major cities in terms of violent crime (was it 85%?) I forget now and can't go back to the page. Thanks.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Horsebox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> snorky Wrote:

> > bad feeling about the way this is going

> Yes, me too.>

> Something to do with "ordinary decent people".

...As I made that comment allow me to elaborate..All(virtually) of my friends come from a Working-Class (invariably) South London background.They wanted to improve their life and left "Inner" London accordingly.They wanted to move to an area with like-minded people who wanted away from crime-ridden areas(YOU decide which ones they are-I have my own views formed since 1965)..43 long years ago..this philosphy applies to all people.The fact that they have uprooted their lives for the sake of their Families speaks volumes,I feel,about the character of the overwheling majority of these people.Its not a revolutionary concept wanting to better their lifestyle and give their children the best possible chance!:)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nice way to uphold your maxim of free speech and

> free thought mad world>

> Natasha. . Say poverty?

Sean PLEASE be the first person EVER lol..to give me an answer to this!!!..If it is "poverty" then why are the most impoverished Community in London i,e The Bangla-Deshis some of the most(if not the most) law-abiding?..Their Community is virtually free of street crime....

(After your reply,I will give you my thoughts.

Over to you....

[ontheedge]

Tony shock me and tell me that you were invited to Britain to do a job that British people thought was beneath them, hoping to give you're family a better life. Welcomed with open arms as you came off that boat in your Sunday best,to be spat upon in the street as you did the job well with a smile that noone else would do. To read signs when you honestly tried to pay you're way, no irish ,no dogs, no blacks.The parents came here proud, their children became disillusioned and their children became disenfranchised, Imperialism has a price to pay and maybe it will be a few generations before the debt can be paid. But we have to take responsibility and own up to being a huge part of the problem.

I am not British but I have lived here pretty cosily for twenty years despite experiencing a certain amount of covert racism (Irish during the troubles) but I have chosen to ignore it as the people who directed it at me mean nothing to me so why should their words. But then again I do not stand out as different, so appear to fit in pretty well as long as I keep my mouth shut.

By the way have you heard the one about paddy irish man..........

[SeanMacGabhann]

Tony

You clearly have a problem, specifically with black people on the surface- but you are too cowardly to say as much ("I will leave you to guess titter titter" etc - and yes you were talking about areas not race but I can read the subtext)

You have such a problem that you stereotype other people - let me take you around the poor (Asian) community of East Ham.. let me take you around the poor (White) community of Edinburgh - equal presence of violence and in many cases intimidation. Cultural inheritance may play a part in behaviour but no race or colour is pre-disposed to violence.

Interesting that you say you and your friends wanted to "improve their lives" and "left London accordingly". Most people from around the country, and the world come to London specifically to improve their lives. What you have/want is a mono-culture. Despite professing respect for law-abiding Bangladeshi's you didn't move to an area with many of them did you. And I would be interested to see how the Kent 'burbs would take to an influx of Bangladeshi people

[Peckham native]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All(virtually) of my friends come from

> a Working-Class (invariably) South London

> background.They wanted to improve their life and

> left "Inner" London accordingly.They wanted to

> move to an area with like-minded people who wanted

> away from crime-ridden areas(YOU decide which ones

> they are-I have my own views formed since

> 1965).

Tony I also come from a working class background as do many of my friends. My family have lived in south London for many generations. In the 60s some aunt & uncles moved out to Kent - they could buy a decent sized house with a good sized garden. They are still there and relatively happy although do comment on the increase in crime. My side of the family have stayed in Peckham. I must say I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I want to live in an area with 'like-minded' people. People who don't judge you on what colour you are, what class you are, what job you do. I've got that here. I have the best neighbours possible. A Jamaican family who have been in the same house for over 40 years. They always look out for me and I get plenty of freebies from their allotment.

Of course there is crime but I'm glad I live in a vibrant, diverse neighbourhood where I know my neighbours and we look after each other as is evident on this forum.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> Tony:> You clearly have a problem, specifically with

> black people on the surface- but you are too

> cowardly to say as much ("I will leave you to

> guess titter titter" etc - and yes you were

> talking about areas not race but I can read the

> subtext)

Thank You for your reply Sean.

Firstly,I can assure you that I am not "tittering",having been born and bred near Peckham and known what it was like to walk thru' any part of there at any hour on my own thru' the 1970's without a care in the World it saddens me that,not only could I do not do it there,but almost certainly not be able too in 50 other London areas,circa 2008.Hardly anything to "titter" about...."Too cowardly"..try not to be personal old thing:)..I have been civil and polite to you,I would appreciate it if you could reciprocate.

>

> "You have such a problem that you stereotype other

> people - let me take you around the poor (Asian)

> community of East Ham.. let me take you around the

> poor (White) community of Edinburgh - equal

> presence of violence and in many cases

> intimidation. Cultural inheritance may play a part

> in behaviour but no race or colour is pre-disposed

> to violence..."...........On the contrary I treat EVERYONE on their own merits,do NOT pre-judge,realise there is good and bad in every Community,and I'm friendly,sociable and respectful to everyone irrespective of colour,race,creed etc...indeed I will go MUCH further than give you the old line about "some of my best friends etc"...I actually have had more Black friends and acquaintances than ALL my White friends combined..My current housemate is from Jamaica,as was the one before last.The Ladyfriend I saw only yesterday was Black and a Ladyfriend I am taking back to London Town tomorrow is also of Jamaican antecedency,so much for your "lazy" stereotyping of me..LOL...........however that does NOT mean that I am going to put my head in the sand about who was responsible for 157,000 out of 175,000 London Mobile Phone THefts/Assaults spread over all 33 London Boroughs,for example.That does not prevent me readind descriptions of the suspects in virtually every London Teenage Murder since January,2007..I returned to my roots to "celebrate" the 25 years back in May,walked around but was told by 2 very Liberal people who loved the character of the area that I should not return in the evenings,that very evening a 21-year-old Black Guy was chased and murdered by a few Guys.

Remember it is BLACK people who are far,far more likely to be victims of these murders themselves.

Put all this in the context of the Black London populace being less than 10%.

No Community is TOTALLY without crime but I'm not too aware of Asian-On-Asian murders>? surely the problems you mentioned in their Community would have occassionally resulted in this?

Glasgee,sorry Glasgow would have been a much better example of what you were trying to say..I have stayed in Glasgow and Edinburgh and I'll take my chance in Edinburgh over The West Coast if you don't mind:)

>

> Interesting that you say you and your friends

> wanted to "improve their lives" and "left London

> accordingly". Most people from around the country,

> and the world come to London specifically to

> improve their lives. What you have/want is a

> mono-culture. Despite professing respect for

> law-abiding Bangladeshi's you didn't move to an

> area with many of them did you. And I would be

> interested to see how the Kent 'burbs would take

> to an influx of Bangladeshi people

You are behind the times Seany,old love:)..The Kent 'burbs have had an influx of Nigerians(and other West Africans) and Asians and many other Racial Groups recently.My next door neighbour is Lithuanian(unthinkable 25 years ago) over the road Asian(who have just converted their property into the nicest in the road)...These people are of a certain mindset and come with a certain good attitude.i.e.they want to get away from areas rightly associated with crime,want to take pride in their homes and area,and give their kids the best possible chance.They will,thus,be welcomed with open arms accordingly.I want to live with good,law-abiding decent people..factors like Colour are irrelevant.As I said earlier if people have takenthe time and trouble to leave their friends and (often) elderly relatives,have left areas where generations of their Families had happily existed then it says much about them does it not?

"Mono-Culture"???...Extraordinary comment!..Get to know Asian people,the Chinese,East Europeans,Jewish people in areas like Redbridge,Golders Green,Hampstead Garden Suburb and Newbury Park or go to the most prominent Black Website.they will ALL tell you that they would LOVE to live in the afore-mentioned "mono-culture"..at best they "tolerate" the indigenous "YT's" or "Greys" or "Bluefoots" ..I will not publish the myriad of more offensive terms..lol

Sean:I sincerely suggest you "Google" Black British Forums find the leading Forum(its obvius which one) and read and learn and then tell me who REALLY wants to live in a "Mono-Culture!!".

p.s.Just hearing on the BBC about 2 French Students set alight who died in New Cross.There is a murder enquiry.Who would have thought on South-East London 2008.??

London is STILL one of the most vibrant Cities in The World! I could extol the virtues of my beloved Hometown ad nauseum,ad infinitum..It can be extremely stimuating and educational to learn from all people that you encounter and we all know how diverse London is:)..Only this tuesday I spent a day in Notting Hill/Kensington/Queensway/West End/Westminster etc.only around 300 other London areas to go.My love of London and its peoples is immense .all the more reason why I hate the fact that I feel its not the right environment to bring up ones children these days,sadly.

p.p.s.You still did not explain why easily the poorest London Community i.e The Bangla-Deshis only commit(at most) very neglible street crime?...I have answered your points,kindly answer my one question...pretty please :)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Peckham native Wrote:Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

> > > All(virtually) of my friends come from

> > a Working-Class ....">

> Tony I also come from a working class background

> as do many of my friends. My family have lived in

> south London for many generations. In the 60s some

> aunt & uncles moved out to Kent - they could buy a

> decent sized house with a good sized garden. They

> are still there and relatively happy although do

> comment on the increase in crime. My side of the

> family have stayed in Peckham. I must say I

> wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I want to

> live in an area with 'like-minded' people. People

> who don't judge you on what colour you are, what

> class you are, what job you do. I've got that

> here. I have the best neighbours possible. A

> Jamaican family who have been in the same house

> for over 40 years. They always look out for me and

> I get plenty of freebies from their allotment.>

> Of course there is crime but I'm glad I live in a

> vibrant, diverse neighbourhood where I know my

> neighbours and we look after each other as is

> evident on this forum.

....That is great to hear that!.That is the way it should be my friend...

The problem is the crime though.Living there you are more aware of the truth of the matter and I note the camaraderie on this Forum which is to be applauded:)...(as I wrote a piece a few minutes ago I heard of the 2 French students who appear to have been burned to death in New Cross,a murder enquiry is underway)...Its the scale of the street crime.

It is so ridiculous when people defensively say "there was a murder in Salford last week" or "there was a murder in leafy Surrey 4 years ago!"..the truth is that you are much more likely to see or hear about street crime in Peckham or Walworth or Kennington or Camberwell than if you live in The Suburbs.Recently(currently lol) my damn window will not shut in my car..I have parked in various places since then locally with no problems at all.Maybe I will come down and park it around Peckham for a couple of weeks and take my chances.:)...Do you reckon that I will get away with it there M8?:)

P.S.Watch over that allotment-there has been an outbreak of allotment theft recently! It was on the front page as the headline story in my local paper:)..Who said the Suburbs were crime-free!..Bleedin' Teefs and Tealeeves:)

[SeanMacGabhann]

Steady Tony, only resident forumite ???? is allowed to call me that ;-)

Otherwise I'm not sure how to respond to your posts - something isn't ringing true with your persona. Your terminology and sudden exclamation of knowing more black people than all other races combined... sorry if it sounds personal but I'm not convinced

So if I google "Black British Forums" (thanks for providing a link btw - very neighbourly) you are telling me I will find narrow-minded people. Unlike any other forum in existence presumably?

I'm not sure you have answered my points either, nor am I sure I can answer yours. You glibly state that there is very little street crime where the poorest communities (in your example Bangladeshi's) but as Tower Hamlets is home to a large concentration of Bangladeshi's I'm not sure crime figures would back up your statement. Looking back historically, long before immigration to Britain, there have been much more violent periods in British history.

Some linkage here...

You sound more like Mary Whitehouse blaming an external (in her case TV) source, rather than addressing any underlying problems.

Another question back at you - what, in your opinion, should be doen about the problem of violent crime?

[SeanMacGabhann]

"he Suburbs.Recently(currently lol) my damn window will not shut in my car..I have parked in various places since then locally with no problems at all.Maybe I will come down and park it around Peckham for a couple of weeks and take my chances....Do you reckon that I will get away with it there M8?"

Seen this thread Tony?

Not burgled shocker

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I'm not going to get into the race thing cos I'll just get the hump, but for anyone who is interested here are some interesting statistics for you.

You have to cick on the 2000 bit to get the most recent per capita murder rates.

I thought Colombia was top of the murder stats, but according to this it's El Salvador, Venuzuela then Jamaica. Uk comes behind Spain, Switzeland, Finland, Northern Ireland and Sweden with England (including London!) coming even lower behind Canada, Portugal, Poland and France with the bottom 3 being Morroco, Burma and Pakistan.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >

> Steady Tony, only resident forumite ???? is

> allowed to call me that ;-)

Jeez Sean how much longer have we got to know each other b4 e become Mates:).I heard you cheeky Cockney chappies were the salt of the earth-Gods own people:)

>

> Otherwise I'm not sure how to respond to your

> posts - something isn't ringing true with your

> persona. Your terminology and sudden exclamation

> of knowing more black people than all other races

> combined... sorry if it sounds personal but I'm

> not convinced.

.....No! I said that I,personally,know more Black people(over the last 30/35 years) than all my other White friends put together!...Thinking about it I DO probably know more Black Guys than other Groups except Jewish as strangely Jewish Guys have been VERY prominent lmao in the financial World that I have been involved in for many years(but I must NOT "stereotype"..silly me:))..."Sudden exclamation?"..I only joined last night M8!

>

> So if I google "Black British Forums" (thanks for

> providing a link btw - very neighbourly) you are

> telling me I will find narrow-minded people.

> Unlike any other forum in existence presumably?

....The reason I did not provide a link is that I was not sure it was permissable here.There are Forums where you are not allowed to!...It is "Blacknet.co.uk" NOT,I repeat NOT ".com"...That forum is not supposed to be like Stormfront or other such nonsense it is from everyday Black people..While White people are not actually banned(its illegal)."Other" views are NOT tolerated..It clearly stated that the Forum is heavily biased in favour of Black people.The head of the Forum makes that ABUNDANTLY clear!..They tell you quite openly that "Free Speech" is not a concept that they believe in!(Most contributors are from England!.I'm sure there's a contradiction there somewhere!)...Go and have a look.Read the thread extolling the virtues of Dear Bobby Mugabe,for example, with only a couple of dissidents who have the audacity to suggest that he has been none too pleasant to other Africans

>

> I'm not sure you have answered my points either,

> nor am I sure I can answer yours. You glibly state

> that there is very little street crime where the

> poorest communities (in your example

> Bangladeshi's) but as Tower Hamlets is home to a

> large concentration of Bangladeshi's I'm not sure

> crime figures would back up your statement.

> Looking back historically, long before immigration

> to Britain, there have been much more violent

> periods in British history.

> Some linkage here...

Where Sean?>

> You sound more like Mary Whitehouse blaming an

> external (in her case TV) source, rather than

> addressing any underlying problems. >

> Another question back at you - what, in your

> opinion, should be doen about the problem of

> violent crime?

........A 16-YEAR-OLD Girl who is reformed from her criminal past made some valid points the other day...She said the problem is all about "materalism" NOT "poverty" though we know "poverty" is one factor.The Parent(s) turn a blind eye as there is less pressure on them to provide themselves...

....What to do?...Educate people to have children ina stable,TWO-Parent environment to give them the "best possible" chance(Yes I KNOW there are admirable exceptions to the rule and plenty of scum who come from 2=Parent Families...but there is no doubt that coming from a loving stable Family where the Man gives Emotional,practical and financial help to his Partner gives their children every chance and gives them a great advantage in life(No guarantees)...

Make sentences much harsher and publicise the fact!!..At worst these people will be of the streets,not harming law-abiding people.

Extol the virtues of Studying.Its "cool" NOT to study amongst many British Black kids(thats undeniable)...Look at the comparison with Black children from The African Continent itself.There is a great difference,IN GENERAL.

Do more Stop and Search but ensire there is no repetition of the nonsense back in the day.

Have more visible Police..

Encourage an all-inclusive Culture that makes ALL people want to be part of our Society.

Plenty more when I have more time.

[Rico]

I'm finding agreement with Tony. As I said elsewhere, and was efficiently and summarily dismissed as a 'Daily Mail troll', it seems common sense has dissappeared and any suggestion that hard left views aren't fully embraced results in insults of being intolerant and ignorant.

Can one not, for example, be against ignorance, racism, sexism and homophobia but still suggest some common sense on immigration issues and recognise certain communities have bigger issues with crime to be tackled?

We're not talking BNP or for that matter Lib Dems, but the centre ground for common sense and the ability to find solutions somewhere in the middle that move us forward?

[bignumber5]

Can one not, for example, be against ignorance, racism, sexism and homophobia but still suggest some common sense on immigration issues

Please do...

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Rico Wrote:

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> I'm finding agreement with Tony. As I said

> elsewhere, and was efficiently and summarily

> dismissed as a 'Daily Mail troll',

.............."Troll"...that does make me laugh as the whole problem is that "most" people do NOT want to come to terms with this problem.Examine it thoroughfully,draw some conclusions and proceed from there!..Its much easier to take the "lazy" way out and say someone who has the temerity nae AUDACITY to want to debate the point in an open,civilised way is a "Troll"...lmao:)

it seems common

> sense has dissappeared and any suggestion that

> hard left views aren't fully embraced results in

> insults of being intolerant and ignorant.

Its actually the complete antithesis of "ignorance"..my perceptions and observations are based on first-hand experience in the work-related arena(Thank you David Brent:))...and living and socialising with all groups of people since the 1960's...too young b4 that!

>" Can one not, for example, be against ignorance,

> racism, sexism and homophobia but still suggest

> some common sense on immigration issues and

> recognise certain communities have bigger issues

> with crime to be tackled? "

The Met.Police compiled Stats showing that 174 out of 177 London Gangs have the same Racial Profile for all(or most) of their Gang Members so anyone aware of this can not begin to deny that some sections of our Community(All Londoners) have more of a problem than others...Who has ever heard of a Jewish Gang or Jewish street mugging(one this Century?):)

>

> "We're not talking BNP or for that matter Lib Dems,

> but the centre ground for common sense and the

> ability to find solutions somewhere in the middle

> that move us forward?"

.........One thing I have learned is that the average "Brit" feels VERY uncomfortable about this whole proble.Just look most parts of the liberal Media(easy for them they are extremely unlikely to get caught upin the morass)...theywould rather the problem just go away and not,personally,bother them.My great concern is that the problem MUST escalate if suitable deterrents are not in place or indeed we can not even discuss the true situation...

[NatashaD]

For all the problems that inner London living has, I would rather that than live in the suburbs. I really don't like suburbs at all.

Despite what muffintop has insinuated I am happy my child goes to a (Peckham) nursery with a large multi ethnic intake. The parents are really friendly and very nice - and so are their children. I deliberately chose that as opposed to a Dulwich Village/ED nursery, for reasons I won't go into as it is not relevant on this thread.

I can see where Tony is coming from, although I do not agree with all of his points. He is entitled to his points, even though they may be different to the ones others hold.

I can understand why some people would want to move further afield out of areas like Peckham - and it is not just white people who do it!!!

[david_carnell]

Phew, where does one even begin on a thread like this after the last couple of pages of hyperbole?

@ Tony - this isn't the 70s. We all look back fondly on previous decades and admire all the good we saw without ever failing to ackknowledge problems that existed then. Parts of London back then were horrendously grim but have seen swathes of investment and renewal since. In the 70s men could still legally rape their wives, Irish people were banned from pubs and the National Front enjoyed their nadir. I'd rather not return to those days if that's ok.

But to suggest that the answer to crime is to take part in the "great white flight" is naive. I grew up in a suburb similar to yours with parents who had moved from SE London in the late 70s (although for work rather than social reasons) and can honestly say it is one of the most soulless, miserable, insular places I've ever had the misfortune to live in. And their friends who did the same across Surrey and Kent are in worse places. Twee, net-curtain twitching surburbia where gays are exotic and the asian familes cook "funny-smelling food". It's ghastly. And I couldn't wait to leave.

I actively chose to come here to live. I'm aware Peckham and East Dulwich have problems regarding crime, anti-social behaviour etc etc but I'd rather stay here and try and do good in my community than flee. What's the quote about allowing evil to prosper when good men do nothing? That's you Tony, you did nothing. You fled to your insular suburbs and now take great pride in letting everyone know what a great choice you've made. I don't care how many black/Jewish/lesbian/asian friends you have, it doesn't disguise your thinly veiled abhorance of anyone not quite like "you/us".

I don't know if you're trolling or not, whether you've come from Gumtree or the moon, nor do I really care, but if you continue to espouse such worthless, ill-thought-out bollocks on here you'll get pretty short shrift from all the decent people who live here and give a damn about their community.

[Moos]

Agree with NatashaD's last point. Lots of people I know talk about moving out of London when their children are older (school age) in order to be able to afford more indoor and outdoor space. I'd be very sad to go, myself, I love living here, and I hope our family can make the necessary adjustments to stay.

[NatashaD]

I agree Moos. I really like living in ED too. I believe my children will, and do, benefit a lot from being here. I'd be miserable living in a suburb or provincial town. And what would they do when they are older? Hang out in a bus shelter?

[Peckham native]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The problem is the crime though.Living there you

> are more aware of the truth of the matter and I

> note the camaraderie on this Forum which is to be

> applauded:)...(as I wrote a piece a few minutes

> ago I heard of the 2 French students who appear to

> have been burned to death in New Cross,a murder

> enquiry is underway)...Its the scale of the street

> crime.

> It is so ridiculous when people defensively say

> "there was a murder in Salford last week" or

> "there was a murder in leafy Surrey 4 years

> ago!"..the truth is that you are much more likely

> to see or hear about street crime in Peckham or

> Walworth or Kennington or Camberwell than if you

> live in The Suburbs.Recently(currently lol) my

> damn window will not shut in my car..I have parked

> in various places since then locally with no

> problems at all.Maybe I will come down and park it

> around Peckham for a couple of weeks and take my

> chances.:)...Do you reckon that I will get away

> with it there M8?:)

> P.S.Watch over that allotment-there has been an

> outbreak of allotment theft recently! It was on

> the front page as the headline story in my local

> paper:)..Who said the Suburbs were

> crime-free!..Bleedin' Teefs and Tealeeves:)

Funny you should mention that but only 2 weeks ago there was a car parked in our street with both its front windows open. Now I thought maybe it had been stolen & dumped but it wasn't listed as stolen. It was like this for perhaps a week but then it was moved to a different spot with windows closed & intact. It is still around. So obviously it belongs to someone local. I have also on more than one occasion forgetfully left my car unlocked, once for several days, and all has been well. I once parked my car for work (Walworth) and must have dropped the car keys by the car door. When I got to my car in the evening there was a note from the road sweeper that he had seen my keys and taken them to the local depot - a box of chocolates went to him.

I honestly don't feel like I live in a dangerous crime ridden area. There are a few alleys and paths I would avoid and they are the same ones I avoided when growing up here in the 60's. I think you get a very different perception of an area reading about it in the press than actually living there.

[nutty]

Not sure if anyone posted this link already and this thread is far too long for me to check - but just to help on the per-capita point.

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/tool/Default.asp?region=0&l1=6&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=36

It's all well and good saying you'll move somewhere were they only have one knifing a year, but if only ten people live there your odds don't look that good anymore :)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Phew, where does one even begin on a thread like

> this after the last couple of pages of hyperbole?

..What part was exagerrated David?>

> @ Tony - this isn't the 70s. We all look back

> fondly on previous decades and admire all the good

> we saw without ever failing to ackknowledge

> problems that existed then. Parts of London back

> then were horrendously grim but have seen swathes

> of investment and renewal since.

................EXACTEMUNDO!..I came from the (then) largest Council Estate in Europe.All my friends came from Council accommodation(Not difficult when 97% of Southwark residents did then)..and yet for all its aesthetic "grimness"...for all the 5 Estates that then existed in Peckham then.Modern housing is VASTLY improved the appearance of the area.For all that it was SAFE.I could and did regularly,walk home from Brixton thru' Camberwell at 4.00 AM with never a problem.Crime IS much more prvailant now whether you accept or like it or not Mon Ami:)

In the 70s men > could still legally rape their wives.....Of course there have been improvements and some horrendous "wrongs" belatedly rectified!, Irish people

> were banned from pubs....there are not still???.....J-O-K-E M8 b4 you get on your high horse:)and the National Front

> enjoyed their nadir.......only to be replaced by the BNP...surely "zenith" in this context NOT "nadir2..the complete opposite meaning?

I'd rather not return to

> those days if that's ok. .....overall I WOULD!!!....Much more courtesy,less traffic and pollution.People with more time and inclination to be part of a Community,instead of lil pockets of Community here and there..Much less chance of witnessing or hearing or being involved(indirectly) in crime...I WOULD...Wheres the Time Machine...actually make it The 1960's..EASILY my favourite decade where London was at the centre of the Universe for Fashion/Photography/Art and Music.:)...some of us WERE "there"...:)

>

> But to suggest that the answer to crime is to take

> part in the "great white flight" is naive. I grew

> up in a suburb similar to yours with parents who

> had moved from SE London in the late 70s (although

> for work rather than social reasons) and can

> honestly say it is one of the most soulless,

> miserable, insular places I've ever had the

> misfortune to live in. And their friends who did

> the same across Surrey and Kent are in worse

> places. Twee, net-curtain twitching surburbia

> where gays are exotic and the asian familes cook

> "funny-smelling food". It's ghastly. And I

> couldn't wait to leave.

......So you did NOT personally experience London Town in the 1960's...I hope that both your Parents are still alive.If so what did they think and how do they like living where(I hope) they currently do?..They are not metaphorical questions..I would be interested to know.

>

> I actively chose to come here to live. I'm aware

> Peckham and East Dulwich have problems regarding

> crime, anti-social behaviour etc etc but I'd

> rather stay here and try and do good in my

> community than flee. What's the quote about

> allowing evil to prosper when good men do nothing?

> That's you Tony, you did nothing. You fled to your

> insular suburbs and now take great pride in

> letting everyone know what a great choice you've

> made. I don't care how many

> black/Jewish/lesbian/asian friends you have, it

> doesn't disguise your thinly veiled abhorance of

> anyone not quite like "you/us".

.....Complete "eyewash" as a former Dulwich resident used to say....I do NOT approve of a Community(in general where over 70% of children come from Single-Parent Families with ALL its social consequences(Poverty/Refuge in Gangs etc/No Role Models/Father Figures etc...the list is endless as I hope and am sure you know)....

>

> I don't know if you're trolling or not, whether

> you've come from Gumtree or the moon, nor do I

> really care, but if you continue to espouse such

> worthless, ill-thought-out bollocks on here you'll

> get pretty short shrift from all the decent people

> who live here and give a damn about their

> community.

......"Ill-thought out b++++"...I have written a great deal.You have an enormous choice of material.What part do you feel comes into the "bollix" category me old fruit?

[SeanMacGabhann]

regardless of points being made could I at least ask that Tony space out your words from the quoted text as It's getting very hard to tell them apart