why having kids is the best thing ever

[Moos]

Just a thought... all these comments about how our parents weren't very happy - is it a direct causal link from parenthood? Maybe people just aren't very happy. Discuss..

[ratty]

Tille Trotter sums it up more perfectly than I ever could. I would never miss out on the overwhelming love I feel for my boy every minute of every day. I was terrified of becoming a dad for all the reasons Keef gives, and put it off for some years. My feeling of elation when we found out we were pregnant put it all in perspective at first, but when he popped out.......

It's the hardest job I have ever done, the most emotional thing I have ever been through. It has helped me know who I am and what I value. It has made me accept my own mortality and reconcile things like my own father's death. It has made me love my wife even more. It has made me want to learn and to teach, made me want to be fitter and live longer. I no longer fear old age or the future because I know my boy will always be there with me. It has turned me into something I never knew I wanted to be, but must have always secretly wished for. I am someones father and it's fooking wicked!

(Plus there is the fact that I can make him support Pompey and in 18 years he can buy me a shant!)

post editted because I was so happy I forgot how to spell

[Marmora Man]

Parenthood has been fine - and for those that stay the course there's a reward. My now 18 year old son bought his father a beer for the first time very soon after his birthday. Of course he borrowed the money to pay for it but it was a defining moment! I look forward to evenings in the pub in the company of my sons.

[citizenED]

Ratty, you say that Tillie summed it up better than you ever could - and then proceed to some it up better than I ever could. Pretty much spot on. (well aside from the Pompey bit)

[TillieTrotter]

My thoughts too Citizen. It's so great to hear this from you dads. There are alot of lucky children around these parts:))

[SteveT]

My ex-wife would have sent them off to boarding school on the pretext they would have a better education.

I put my foot firmly to the floor and a big NO followed. She insisted they had a private education I did not believe in the private system and argued that if either have any talent it will eventually emerge. They both went to Alleyns and I was quite happy to deliver or collect as necessary, I do not think that it was a particularly good investment but the parents and staff were nice enough, and it gave my ex something to pay for out of her salary.

She was the one who fell "accidently" pregnant and made me furious as we had discussed and rejected the breeding game as I considered myself too old, but when she arrived I was as thrilled as at anytime in my life. My ex would have stopped then and I insisted that we had another so that they had someone of their own when we were long gone.

The eldest is a ringer for her mother, and the youngest is like me, and the great thing is, although they argue and snarl at each other, they are each their best friend.

No one could have been more anti kids than myself and yet when they arrive, it's ok, you survive and Keef if you are reading this, keep a stock of resolve extra plus in the drugs cabinet to ease the come down after the big night.

If they make any inappropriate noise the morning after, you have the right and dubious pleasure of bellowing at them to be quiet or play in their room.

As daddy isn't feeling too well.

[citizenED]

It has been great to hear from those that are reluctant or wary about having kids, but something nobody has mentioned was the anxiety about having a disabled child. Hope it doesn't sound uncaring, but it played on my mind big time. It was probably my only real worry. I was not sure what to expect in general but I did have real concerns over that in particular. Even when this amazing sonographer kept going on about how rare cases of diasability were, and in the process basically telling us that ours was as close as possible to being 100% fine, I still worried. As it happens, now that I have kids, I'm sure that had one of them been disabled, I would have had just as much love for them.

Does this play on the minds of anyone else?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I had 11 scans and was helpfully told the problem could be anything from colour blindness to Downs Syndrome. Ironically, I was considering adoption, but from that moment, I became extremely maternal and protective.

As it turned out, she has mildly deformed toes and all was well, but I suspect the reserves of love just kick in overtime when faced with a disability.

[Keef]

There is a pretty high chance that my child would get my eyes, that I got from my mum. Mine are not as bad as my mum's by any stretch, but that's not to say my child's couldn't be worse... Thing is, it doesn't bother me too much, as I am in the best possible position to help them get around it (that's my job), and thanks to my mum, I have the attitude that a child is better off in mainstream education, and will make bloody sure that's what they get!

Some teachers may disagree with me, but I promise you, the child is better off if it is a physical disability... Mental health / learning disabilityies are a different matter.

Having said all that, I would be scared that they could have something other than the eyes! Fingers crossed they, assuming they'll exist one day, be fine...

[lozzyloz]

But Keef, on the positive side your kid could also be a brilliant musician, full of wit and humour and of great character.

[SteveT]

I spent years of my life putting adults and children on ventilators.

The worst day was having a blue light ride from Herne Hill to Redhill (15mins) to put a 16 year old girl on a ventilator.

Whilst struggling with the paediatrician to make the ventilator work on her a priest came in and started to noisily read the last rites.

Trying to concentrate on the machinery with alarms going off, I found it intrusive and distracting, and finally she lost the fight and passed away.

I felt I was in shock for several days after that incident, and could not concentrate on anything, almost as if I was preoccupied with something.

That girl had been ill from birth, and it was only through the valiant efforts of her parents that she reached 16 years.

The unseen problems are the other children in the family, who are normal but do not get a fare share of attention and often become attention seeking.

Girls excessive flirting, or boys being disruptive, both can be resentful to their parents, and too embarrassed to bring their friends home.

I think by now I have depressed everyone and will stop, but I still think that having them is better than not.

[????]

Both of mine were 'accidents' and they both bring/brought a completley new meaning to my life. Both were born in my 40s and before them I couldn't ever imagine having kids whereas now I couldn't imagine not having them. They also have saved my liver (probably) and my dignity (certainly) as I was NOT growing old gracefully.

[indiepanda]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >

> liked that TT

>

> Good post by indiepanda btw - and not the first

> either

>

> I've chatted with Keef on this subject before and

> feel similarly - but many of the parents from the

> forum have definitely given me hope (as it were)

thanks Sean. Good to hear you have hope. I have rare moments of hope. But I reckon I should go one step at a time and find a nice boyfriend before I work too hard on this issue!

CitizenED - yes totally agree about the fear of a child being disabled. I know the truth is people find that its amazing what they can cope with when they have to - but given a choice any parent would wish for a healthy child.

Somewhat selfishly I think what scares me most is the possibility of post natal depression. My mum has suffered from depression on and off all my life and has always told me having kids was what caused it. I discovered some years after she said this she'd be on valium in her 20s and didn't have me till she was in her 30s, so it can't really be down to the children. Though when I challenged her on that she said it was so much worse after having children.

Having grown up feeling blamed for my mum's unhappiness, the fear of not wanting to end up in the same situation doing the same to my kids is very powerful. My sister has been with her husband for some 13 years, and she doesn't have any desire to have children either - suspect this is no coincidence.

[danmaitland]

Doesnt anyone think there are ecological and ethical reasons for not bringing more humans into the planet, particularly into a high consuming country like ours, when we are 7 billion people over the sustainable population mark as it stands...just because it makes us feel better and adds to our already incredibly priveleged existence, doesn't to me seem good enough..

[VeryBerryCherry]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=984885&id=716666915

[citizenED]

just located the two books i was thinking about regarding the issues brought up here. One is "What are Children For?" by Laurie and Matthew Taylor which is a comparison between the different parenting skills of a father and a son and the associated questions thus brought up. Intriguing reading. The other is "A Life's Work" by Rachel Cusk. That's a pretty tough analysis of what it means to become a mother, a sombre book since Cusk seems to have gone through some sort of Post-natal depression, although when I read it - some time before having my kids, I found it strangely uplifting.

I found a realistic and honest but witty and upbeat guide having kids was Kath Cooke's "Rough Guide to Parenting". Basically seemed to 'tell it it as it is' which boils down to bloody hard work but fulfilling if you once in a while get a quiet moment in which to down copious amounts of wine.

[shoshntosh]

indiepanda,

your post made me so sad. how dare your mum lay that blame and guilt on you. i suppose it supports my view that just like people, and -- as someone else rightly pointed out -- like children, not all parents are alike and likeable. as in any population there is a range. and parenting/parenthood does seem to improve some people and, erm, the opposite of improve (is thehre a word for it and my jet-lagged brain just can't think of it, or is it just being a parent, or just being blonde? or is there not a word?) anyway, parenthood does the opposite of improve some people. just like marriage. or aging. or the myriad other experiences we have in life (getting sacked, getting laid, getting your heart broken). i guess the biggest thing about parenting that is different is that it is forever... and for commitment-phobes like me, that is the biggest adjustment. you can't just walk away -- there is no going back. it is laying down the gauntlet in the biggest way ever.

i just said to my daughter (aged 5) today: "try to imagine what it is like to be responsible for something that you love so much". she actually seemed to understand and calmly stopped whatever senseless and dangerous thing she was doing. the moments of success are comparable with good sex (and thank god for that).

as for disability, depression, and the lot... there are no guarantees with kids. but then, there are none in life either. these things happen to us/our loved ones at any time, kids or no kids.

[indiepanda]

Well, mum is a Catholic, they do like their guilt trips...

Seriously, there have been times when I have really found it hard to forgive her for that, and I do find myself feeling envious of people who have a really warm and relaxed relationship with their parents. Mine is cordial enough these days, probably as good as it ever has been but I don't totally trust them to be supportive.

I deliberately keep some of my problems from them because I know it would worry them, and it's easier to deal with on my own than have to take the stress which comes with them being worried on top of having to deal with the situation myself. I don't want to be the one responsible for my mum's latest trip to the doctors for more antidepressants.

But, compared to kids who have been abused or beaten up or have alcoholic parents etc etc, I'm still pretty lucky. She only got so anxious, and dad was only so over protective because they loved me and my sister, just their way of showing it was rather hard to deal with for me.

Some of what mum did was only what her parents did to her - gather her mum was also the anxious type. It isn't an excuse, but understandable all the same. And my dad was over-protective because his younger sister married a drug addict who murdered her (well techincally manslaughter, but same difference as far as the family was concerned) and was worried we might also fall in with a bad crowd.

So they didn't maybe have the best backdrop for being great parents, but in those days it was expected you got married, you have a family, especially as a Catholic. And when all is said and done, I can't exactly look at my own life and say I always make the best decisions for me either, I guess on some level we are all muddling through trying to do the best we can with the resources we have, none of us are perfect.

[Rhodesy]

Indiepanda, thanks for sharing that with us. Really interesting to see your reasons for the whole kids thing.

I was thinking, out of those who have said they don't want kinds, is it because of you own experience with your parents?

Or do you feel that has nothing to do with your decision at all?

[Cassius]

Bit late on this one - been away but really interesting reading.

I would say that having kids is the best thing ever for some people - and obviously for a lot of people on this forum which is fantastic for them. However was it the best thing ever for the teenage mothers pushing prams on council estates? Was it the best thing ever for Karen Matthews? Was it the best thing ever for that poor woman in Austria forced to have her father's babies? (Name gone - brain still in Italy!)

If all the children in the world had parents who thought they were the best thing ever then we would be living in a much happier world than we do - and power to all the loving and thoughtful parents in the world.

Incidentally it has never crossed my mind for even a nano-second that I would have children and I truly believe that the responsiblity and pressure of being a 'good' parent would make me very unhappy indeed. Bearing the child is not the hard bit, but bringing a child up to be a loving, kind and responsible adult is (IMO).

[VeryBerryCherry]

Cassius,

I think you are spot on when you talk of the pressure of being a "good" parent. It must be like walking a tightrope across the Gran Canyon!

I was chatting to my mum yesterday when she decidedto get all "deep n meaningful" on my @ss. After quite a few recent family traumas, which we are still working our way through, she was asking if she had been a "good" parent to my siblings and I? How could I answer that when 3 minutes earlier in the conversation she was telling me how my sister rang her upset and she ignored her and told her she was, too busy to listen right now!

There's always been so much contradiction. I could never say she was a bad parent, she did the "best she could do" (her sentiments and mine). But yes, things were so far from perfect and her actions have had certain consequences. She makes me angry/frustrated/promise myself I'll never make the same mistakes (only brand new one's :-$) But I know how she's worked so hard to be the best parent she can, and can you ask for more than that? No.

But then again, her actions would be my reasons for not wanting kids. I couldn't cope with that kind of pressure... and then to be worried for the rest of your life that doing "the best I can" had consequences that I could never imagine for my own kids. I couldn't put any child through that.

I'll wait till my borther and sister have kids.. then I can corrupt them and walk away at bed time! Ha ha ha

[VeryBerryCherry]

So, how many people think that there decision to have kids or not to have kids, has been influenced by their parents?

[danmaitland]

amazing that no-one replied at all to this:

Posted by: danmaitland July 11, 02:56PM

Doesnt anyone think there are ecological and ethical reasons for not bringing more humans into the planet, particularly into a high consuming country like ours, when we are 7 billion people over the sustainable population mark as it stands...just because it makes us feel better and adds to our already incredibly priveleged existence, doesn't to me seem good enough..

[Brendan]

Well there are of course ecological and ethical reasons for not having any people in this world at all. Except then there wouldn?t be any concepts like ecological or ethical*. So there wouldn?t be much point in not having any people so you may as well have them.

Or maybe not, who knows?

*Or reason or indeed concepts like concepts or using the term indeed to make yourself sound smart.

[Jah Lush]

Yes indeed Brendan. I couldn't agree more. What an appalling concept.

Also, do you want us to turn into China and have the amount of children we're allowed capped? And, I don't mean kneecapped. Although in some cases that may be a good thing. Better than an ASBO I suppose.

Edited for immaculate conception.