What is the Dulwich Estate doing to our pubs?

[Penguin68]

Even 25 years ago the Grove was a good family pub - great from May through to late September in the garden with children, a barbeque in the summer. Because the garden was so large children weren't oppressive to the un-childed. Even the very early Harvester days weren't that bad, then it just seemed to lose direction, and, eventually, customers. With (originally) 2 good car parks it could have been quite an attractor for groups. That site, and that footprint, ought to give great opportunity to revive a pub there. It's a scandal it sits there boarded up and decaying. It's not as if there was too much commercial land about locally that that shoudn't need to be used.

But maybe the fact that virtually the 3 biggest (by footprint) boozers locally are all shut says something about changing mores and customs.

[titch juicy]

Have been told that the dog was falling to bits and the dulwich estate were the only ones that would touch it.

[The Dulwich Raider]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Dulwich Estate is Arsene Wenger and

> the Grove is Nicklas Bendtner - what can they do?

>

Superb.

Thanks everyone for the feedback on the piece and, more importantly, your thoughts and wisdom on the subject.

Trying not to think too much about pubs today due to deep hangover, but hopefully nothing a fry-up at Johnnies won't fix.

TDR

[EDOldie]

spider69 Wrote:

>

> Let it reopen as a normal local pub much as I

> remember it in th 1970's where you went for a pint

> and the children played in the garden. Unlike

> today where kids have to run around in the bar.

>

> It was a local not the "lets be seen expensive

> bars" that seem to be the norm in ED pricing thr

> local plebs out

>

> Showing my age

It was actually about the poshest pub in the area, apart from perhaps, believe or not, the Fox on the Hill. Both had very good, for the standard of the time, restaurants and, along with the Steak House in Dulwich Village were where people went if they wanted a meal out. I am pretty certain the the one in the Grove was called the Peacock Room or bar & Restaurant, can't remember. But I also think that gentleman had to wear a jacket and tie to be allowed into the restaurant. I only ate there once with a friends family when I was about 13 or 14 (1971/2) and it was very smart.

[Shanikus]

I have heard a rumour that there is a push to change the planning for the Grove from a licensed venue/hotel to a school. Given the fact SE22/21 are drastically short of primary school places, would this not be a better use for this site, given that Lordship Lane and Forest Hill have quite a number of pubs...

[Ukla]

Good article, will reserve judgment on the dog.

[DulvilleRes]

To Steveo 'They may not have had much to do with the three pubs being shut but I think it's beholden on us to at least let the Governors know that someone cares while they make up their minds whether they are conservators or a rapacious property company'

To me the answer is obvious - rapacious property company. Furthermore I think there is a masterplan behind it - to turn Dulwich into a place where the chains will pay over the odds rents for a presence. The evidence of their recent non renewal of leaseholders in Dulwich Village points to this. The Flower Shop have been given their marching orders after 2 generations, and that includes, I'm told, them getting evicted out of the upstairs flat.

The Estate always falls back on 'an obligation to maximise returns' argument - the reality is that there is a lot of leeway, as institutional landlords, as to how they behave. Rumour I'ver heard, whether true or not, is they are trying to bang through an underground car park on the SG Smith development site, so the planning is sitting nicely for them to open a small Waitrose where the SG Smith showroom is now. Rapacious property developers I can handle, the one that proper turns my stomach is their holier than thou hypocrisy around conservation.

[paaatch]

Romeo Jones is licensed. Serving wine and beer at lunch time. Look out for a pop wine bar too in the not too distant future.

[ernesto]

why is everyone so surprised that the Dulwich estate isnt a touchy feely Fabian kinda organisation ?

they have made no secret of what they beleive in ( clue, its probabaly not going to benenfit most of us in any way)

[grace3]

WILL SOMEONE PLEEESE THINK OF THE CHILDREN! shut up.

[Louisa]

ernesto the Dulwich Estate may not be for the benefit of everyone, but they own lots of land locally including some historical sites such as the grove tavern which are of a wider community interest.

Louisa.

[ladyruskin]

Can't you apply for the grove tavern to be transferred into a community asset in a similar fashion to the Ivy House?

[grace3]

ladyruskin Wrote:

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> Can't you apply for the grove tavern to be

> transferred into a community asset in a similar

> fashion to the Ivy House?

Community asset? over ?5 a pint when I called in during the summer Maybe I was'nt their type.

[Mugglesworth]

What were you drinking grace3? Beer starts at under ?3 a pint (Trumans) in the Ivy House.

[BrandNewGuy]

Mugglesworth Wrote:

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> What were you drinking grace3? Beer starts at

> under ?3 a pint (Trumans) in the Ivy House.

Yeah, but as you know there are people who happily ignore differences in beer in terms of strength, quality and so on. Like people who see a ?12 bottle of wine and say, "?12?! I can get a bottle of wine for ?4!" The success of the Ivy House tells you all you need to know about how successful a community pub it is, but there are always moaners who'd preferred that it reamined shut.

[steveo]

> Community asset? over ?5 a pint when I called in

> during the summer Maybe I was'nt their type.

It's been shut for over a year so no you didn't

[grace3]

steveo Wrote:

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> > Community asset? over ?5 a pint when I called

> in

> > during the summer Maybe I was'nt their type.

>

>

> It's been shut for over a year so no you didn't

maybe you didn't fit in either?

[Peckhamrye]

The Ivy House re-opened over a year ago Steveo and Grace03 - you really have to be trying to spend over ?5 a pint, average is ?4.

[steveo]

Sorry, wrong end of the stick. I'm very fond of the Ivy House, its beer and its reasonable prices

[twister]

I enjoy the Ivy house, I'm hoping for a pint there on V day after my bag of chips on the walk over! we would be happy to put into a community pub. Say that the Magdala/Mag/Patch...... Would be a better option for a community pub.

[grace3]

Anyone that can drink a pint of beer after eating a bag of chips is a hero, it's like chewing gum and smoking a woodbine.

[Sue]

twister Wrote:

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> we would be happy to put into a community pub. Say

> that the Magdala/Mag/Patch...... Would be a better

> option for a community pub.

Don't understand, it's probably my fault, but could you explain what you mean?

[Otta]

I think they mean it would be better than the Grove.

[Jeremy]

No no... he meant the Ivy House is terrible and we should all avoid it! Especially the rubbish folk gigs!

[aerie]

Shanikus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have heard a rumour that there is a push to

> change the planning for the Grove from a licensed

> venue/hotel to a school. Given the fact SE22/21

> are drastically short of primary school places,

> would this not be a better use for this site,

> given that Lordship Lane and Forest Hill havej

> quite a number of pubs...

Hello I realise that I am coming v late to this thread : this week I heard (a rumour) that Lidl are moving into the Grove Tavern . Is this true? anyone know?