Burro e Salvia is coming to East Dulwich

[Willard]

You are being

> stereo typical about the Italians. Italians are

> very open with their food, they share their

> passion for food with everyone who wants to learn

> about Italian cuisine. We have regional dishes, in

> Venice we have risotto, In Brindisi, game. We

> share and we love.

> Lets get back on topic now folkes, this thread as

> gone way off topic.

> Grazie

Exactly, you've mirrored my experience. Italians can be very open with their food, with "anyone who wants to learn about Italian cuisine". However my original point is that this can often be a one way street. I hasten to add once more that this is my experience, since you seemed to miss that point originally, but I have found Italians to be very parochial and condescending to other cuisines.

[jj2]

Some italians are more open to other cuisenes, other less, but I don't think it's a matter of being condescending, it's just a matter in some cases of being such in love with something, not to be tempted to look elsewhere.

It personally took me a while to try for example asian cousines, but now I love them.

But this was not my original point, nor I believe is on the topic of this thread.

My point was that I don't see any valid reason why in the UK most italian products have to be marketed and sold by places targeting a more upscale clientele.

There is no real reason why the two things should marry together. In Italy we have expensive/classy food places, as well as 'working-class' places. They target different types of clientele with slightly different products and of course different prices.

Places like Burro&Salvia are one type of places that exist in Italy and I am happy they are replicated in the UK.

What I would be even more happy though, would be to see more more down-to-earth (and consequently less expensive) places selling similar products.

-------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> Exactly, you've mirrored my experience. Italians

> can be very open with their food, with "anyone who

> wants to learn about Italian cuisine". However my

> original point is that this can often be a one way

> street. I hasten to add once more that this is my

> experience, since you seemed to miss that point

> originally, but I have found Italians to be very

> parochial and condescending to other cuisines.

[Louisa]

jj2 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What I would be even more happy though, would be

> to see more more down-to-earth (and consequently

> less expensive) places selling similar products.

Hallelujah to that point.

Louisa.

[cle]

jj2 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Some italians are more open to other cuisenes,

> other less, but I don't think it's a matter of

> being condescending, it's just a matter in some

> cases of being such in love with something, not to

> be tempted to look elsewhere.

> It personally took me a while to try for example

> asian cousines, but now I love them.

>

> But this was not my original point, nor I believe

> is on the topic of this thread.

> My point was that I don't see any valid reason why

> in the UK most italian products have to be

> marketed and sold by places targeting a more

> upscale clientele.

>

> There is no real reason why the two things should

> marry together. In Italy we have expensive/classy

> food places, as well as 'working-class' places.

> They target different types of clientele with

> slightly different products and of course

> different prices.

>

> Places like Burro&Salvia are one type of places

> that exist in Italy and I am happy they are

> replicated in the UK.

> What I would be even more happy though, would be

> to see more more down-to-earth (and consequently

> less expensive) places selling similar products.

>

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> >

> > Exactly, you've mirrored my experience.

> Italians

> > can be very open with their food, with "anyone

> who

> > wants to learn about Italian cuisine". However

> my

> > original point is that this can often be a one

> way

> > street. I hasten to add once more that this is

> my

> > experience, since you seemed to miss that point

> > originally, but I have found Italians to be

> very

> > parochial and condescending to other cuisines.

This is 100% correct in my experience, with the exception of the Milanese and sushi. Italians just aren't interested in foreign food (or people) much - their culture is focused around Italy, home, family, tradition and so on, not a criticism but how it is largely.

[jj2]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jj2 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > What I would be even more happy though, would

> be

> > to see more more down-to-earth (and

> consequently

> > less expensive) places selling similar

> products.

>

>

> Hallelujah to that point.

>

> Louisa.

which actually proves my point, showing that you are actually not against 'another italian place in the area', rather 'another relatively expensive shop in the area'.

[James]

I am furious and disgusted that a shop is coming to the area without asking my permission.

The cheek of it!

[DulwichFox]

Times were people ate in local restaurants and they were within the financial reach of all..

For a treat people went up West. Somewhere special..

Even a basic Curry and 2 small beers on LL. is going to set you back ?20.00+ even in the cheaper places.

Add a starter / desert / liqueur and that's ?35.00 + tip.

I used to eat out 4-5 nights a week. Now its down 2 once / twice.

Prices in new outlets are pushing up prices elsewhere and allowing landlords to charge what they like for rents.

It's snowballing and it's out of control.

DulwichFox

[Louisa]

I agree jj2, and it proves my point too. My issue is with places being out of the reach of many locals when in fact the prices could be kept lower so that all social classes could afford to eat these lovely foods. There's no need for working class cuisine to be made pretentious by some and as a result the prices going up.

I also agree with you foxy, the days of eating out are becoming a rarity for me too I'm not willing to spend the best part of fifty smackers on a basic meal drinks and tip.

Louisa.

[Otta]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Times were people ate in local restaurants and

> they were within the financial reach of all..

> For a treat people went up West. Somewhere

> special..

>

> Even a basic Curry and 2 small beers on LL. is

> going to set you back ?20.00+ even in the cheaper

> places.

> Add a starter / desert / liqueur and that's

> ?35.00 + tip.

>

> I used to eat out 4-5 nights a week. Now its down

> 2 once / twice.

>

> Prices in new outlets are pushing up prices

> elsewhere and allowing landlords to charge what

> they like for rents.

>

> It's snowballing and it's out of control.

>

> DulwichFox

A couple of nights ago I went in to a little grotty kebab shop in Penge because it had a sign in the window saying everything was half price as it had changed hands. So I decided to treat myself to a shish kebab and chips. This cost me ?6 and that was half price.

Food just costs a lot these days.

[Louisa]

Otta honestly, Kebab and Wine will do a shish and chips for under 7 quid. And I don't care what the snobs say, they do one of the best kebabs around SE London IMO. I've gone in there off my face after an afternoon on the juice and always walk away satisfied.

Louisa.

[jimbo1964]

I've gone in there off my face after an afternoon on the juice and always walk away satisfied.

High praise indeed.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

"I've gone in there off my face after an afternoon on the juice and always walked away satisfied."

Love Louisa. If she isnt Half-Life, she should be.

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Otta honestly, Kebab and Wine will do a shish and

> chips for under 7 quid. And I don't care what the

> snobs say, they do one of the best kebabs around

> SE London IMO. I've gone in there off my face

> after an afternoon on the juice and always walk

> away satisfied.

>

> Louisa.

[Jah Lush]

Otta Wrote:

> A couple of nights ago I went in to a little

> grotty kebab shop in Penge because it had a sign

> in the window saying everything was half price as

> it had changed hands. So I decided to treat myself

> to a shish kebab and chips. This cost me ?6 and

> that was half price.

>

> Food just costs a lot these days.

That can't be right. You've been royally stitched up there. I reckon you've paid the normal price and they've forgotten to give you the half price deal.

[????]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Times were people ate in local restaurants and

> they were within the financial reach of all..

> For a treat people went up West. Somewhere

> special..

>

> Even a basic Curry and 2 small beers on LL. is

> going to set you back ?20.00+ even in the cheaper

> places.

> Add a starter / desert / liqueur and that's

> ?35.00 + tip.

>

> I used to eat out 4-5 nights a week. Now its down

> 2 once / twice.

>

> Prices in new outlets are pushing up prices

> elsewhere and allowing landlords to charge what

> they like for rents.

>

> It's snowballing and it's out of control.

>

> DulwichFox

Foxy you really must stop confusing what you did/would like with what the demand is generally . More people eat out than ever did in the past. Do you honestly think that there's not a far wider choice of food type with far better better quality food than in the 70s and 80S? Really?

[Otta]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Otta Wrote:

>

> > A couple of nights ago I went in to a little

> > grotty kebab shop in Penge because it had a

> sign

> > in the window saying everything was half price

> as

> > it had changed hands. So I decided to treat

> myself

> > to a shish kebab and chips. This cost me ?6 and

> > that was half price.

> >

> > Food just costs a lot these days.

>

> That can't be right. You've been royally stitched

> up there. I reckon you've paid the normal price

> and they've forgotten to give you the half price

> deal.

Nope,looked at the menu, large shish was a tenner. Can't see him doing well,especially when he's got some good competition in the area.

[albert]

Dear Burro e Salvia,

Welcome to East Dulwich. Will you be making meat ravioli? Lina stores in Soho used to make the best veal ravioli, but since they have changed hands I've hated the new recipe. Hoping you will be making something wonderful.

[jimbo1964]

Not sure what the topic of this thread is anymore. But I don't think people really ever used to eat out 4-5 times a week. We certainly never did.

I took my son to Franco Manca last night. I thought it was great. Really delicious pizza, good ingredients and the bill for two of us (inc a beer for me was ?17). I think that's great value and we'll go back.

My advice to B&S would be to do a couple of really good, simple kids choices for about ?5-6 and the punters will flood in for the early sittings and weekends. I'm sure it'll be a success, the menu looks fab.

[DulwichFox]

jimbo1964 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But I don't think people really ever used to eat

> out 4-5 times a week. We certainly never did.

>

I did...

For a period 1977 - 1979 when I was Vegetarian I survived on Veggie curries.

I ate out EVERY night and on a Sunday often had 2 curries.

I still go out every night and have done for the past 40 years except when I was working nights.

circa 1999-2001

DulwichFox

[simonethebeaver]

Two adults can share pizza and big, cheesy garlic bread in Franco Manca for around ?10. But as that fails the posh cheese on toast Fox/Louisa challenge, it cannot sadly catapult the cheap meal barrier. So hard!

[Louisa]

simonethebeaver - you're of course absolutely right that IMO pizza is a carb filled meal with few health benefits. Probably will fill you up substantially but little else. I couldn't personally describe it as a meal, a snack perhaps. Sharing one pizza and one garlic bread between two people well, hmmm you'd have to have a pretty small appetite.

For 3 quid in sainsburys a meal deal will get you a sandwich drink and crisps, is that a meal or a snack? Depends on ones appetite I suppose.

Louisa.

[edcam]

Who hurt you Louisa? Was it a pizza delivery man?

[nxjen]

I hope Burro e Salvia are going to offer a free meal to all those who have posted on this thread for keeping their name prominent at the top of the ED issues section. The detractors do not have to accept.

[AbDabs]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> simonethebeaver - you're of course absolutely

> right that IMO pizza is a carb filled meal with

> few health benefits. ....

But a shish and chips does? Especially when you're off your face?

Bad pizzas are carb laden junk food. Well made pizzas are perfectly good meals, so hurrah for Franco Manca.

[Louisa]

AdDabs, a shish tends to be a healthy and well rounded meal option. Granted the chips aren't great, but when you're mullered after copious amounts of red wine and vodka there's nothing wrong with adding a naughty side to an otherwise healthy meal option.

edcam I must admit to being stuck behind numerous dominos pizza delivery people on bikes with L plates on for goodness sakes (grrrr) who have rattled my cage somewhat. Especially when I'm trying to get somewhere urgently.

Louisa.

[Alan Medic]

How often do you have to get somewhere 'urgently' Louisa? Are you an ambulance driver?