Roundabout at Goose Green

[jackangel]

So, the ?Dulwich Community Council has made an award to provide a new centrepiece for the roundabout? (at Goose Green). Contact [email protected] for info.

yes/no response sheets have been circulated (?) seeking views about the centrepiece:

1. A Tree. (Trees are nice. And there aren?t any around for . . . well . . . metres)

2. A Signpost. (Signposts are nice. They point to Camberwell and Peckham and places, like those on real road signs)

3. A Lantern. (Lanterns are nice. And, at night, it could illuminate . . . er . . . itself)

3a* Flowers planted by the Parks Dept. (Don?t they look after the roundabout anyway?)

3b* A Fountain. (Drowned football fans every morning after an England defeat . . . hmm, there?s a certain appeal. Ah no! - it would not be provided by a fountain expert, it would become a number 4)

4. An Art Installation. (Art is nice, isn?t it? But there are some genuine concerns for creators and consumers.)

Public art has three audience groups (LDI), those who Like it, those who Dislike it, and those who are largely Indifferent (but may be steered into saying it?s good/clever/colourful/worthwhile/useless/eyesore/waste of money/etc by the other two groups).

Any Art Installation in a public area, where people cannot choose whether or not to view it, will invariably be an irritant to some, possibly many. Maybe we don?t care.

Unlike Fast Food, Art has a good press. It is assumed to be inherently ?good?.

Once particular individuals/small authoritarian groups (PISAGs) initiate the idea that there should be ?art? in a certain place, the genie can never be fully re-corked.

PISAGs decide who should create the art. They have a congenital belief that they know best.

ED and its environs are stuffed with artists, craftspeople, designers, inventors and creatives ? yet PISAGs ignore them for the favoured or famous.

Residents and others who have to ?face the art? on a daily basis have no special consideration. Consultation = notice to proceed.

Look at the borders of SE15/SE22 where bollards were commissioned from Rhodes and Gormley. A gift of a brief ? constrained dimensions and materials for a single practical function ? which resulted in expensive, worse-for-wear, embarrassing street clutter. Who decided this should be public art? Who chose the artists? Why weren?t residents asked if they wanted this art? Dunno. Munygon. Computersayno.

Imagine canvassing views at the EDT (because it overlooks the roundabout) at about 10.30 pm, after a long hot Saturday of loosening aesthetic inhibitions. A sudden landslide of opinion may well result in, say, a full-size study of Mr Stay Puft (Ghost Busters 1984) being installed on the roundabout. It would be legitimate because it would satisfy the LDI principle . . . but you know (you do know, don?t you?) the PISAGs wouldn?t stand for it.

What to do?

* I made up 3a and 3b

[Asset]

I believe Anthony Gormley has his studio somewhere round here - hence that choice I would think.

[Bellenden Belle]

Can I just say that i LOVE our bollards. I don't regard them as "street clutter" as all. I think it's really nice to have something functional yet quirky - which is exactly what they are. And there are some lovely mosaics on Bellenden Road as part of that commission as well.

Personally I love art dotted around - it makes me feel I am part of a unique environment,with character and interest. How dull if everything was uniform.

[Asset]

Art is there to provoke reactions - surely a piece of art whoever's choice it is, is better than a scrap of crappy grass with no interest.

I like the bollards too.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Another hand up for the bollards

[Jeremy]

An art installation would be good, but it had better be robust (ie made out of stone/concrete) otherwise it will just get smashed up.

[Mark]

ok, I like the bollards too, but I don't want them on the roundabout. I like the idea of some art on there or a tree/shrubbery/rock garden/japanese water garden or just a proper, decent sign in a old (Victorian?) style.

[Bellenden Belle]

Hi Mark,

Lordy - I don't want bollards on there either - I was just referring to the post!

I agree with you - some art or other significant feature would be lovely. Not really fussed about signage and would like something a little different other than just another tree .... though of course all trees are good things :)

[nutty]

Angel of East Dulwich?

[mockney piers]

I quite liked it when the shop that is now the William Roses' cow went missing and then after an appeal did a mysterious reappearing act on the roundabout. Not to encourage petty vandalism (students, you know who you are) but it sort of looked like an art installation.

[karter]

The community wardens have suggested a sculpture of a buggy.Lovely :))

[macroban]

All the proposals would restrict drivers' lines vision across the roundabout or may distract drivers when navigating the roundabout and would make the roundabout more unsafe.

The Community Council will have access to the risk assessment for each of the proposals.

I am unsure of the legal corporate liability of Community Council members who make a "bad decision".

[Huguenot]

I like to be surrounded by art too, and have never yet considered the local provision to be clutter.

I don't quite understand JA's original post: is this saying there is a current petition inviting us to tick 1-4 (not 3a/3b)?

Is JA saying (s)he reckons they're all 'nice', but doesn't think art is a good option, or is this on someone's petition?

What are we being invited to do - specify whether we're LDI, or establish ourselves as a PISAG?

Assuming I'm an L and a PISAG, I did have some sensible suggestions months ago: I'm not a great fan of abstract art, but would like to see something celebrating either Viscount Lord Bolingbroke, or wasn't Enid Blyton born here on LL? A bronze of our favourite local writer ties in nicely with buggies, and our rural gentle friendly village community feel.

[Jeremy]

macroban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All the proposals would restrict drivers' lines

> vision across the roundabout or may distract

> drivers when navigating the roundabout and would

> make the roundabout more unsafe.

>

I used to live (temporarily) in a certain new town, west of London. The council there actually deliberatly obscured the view across some of the roundabouts, to force the boy racers to stop and look before entering the roundabout. Not sure if it worked, though...

[Huguenot]

Macroban, I'm sure nobody's going to endanger traffic. It comes across like you're trying to threaten Council members with legal action just for having a view? Is that trying to shut down debate? I may have misunderstood.

Is this an appropriate way to ruin Fireworks night?

[Dannyboy]

How about a statue of Enid Blyton on the roundabout, and smaller depictions of her characters as bollards up Lordship Lane? The Secret Seven up one side, and the Famous Five on the other? How about Boris Karloff - or is he too Forest Hill?

[Nero]

~What about a statue of the woman who invented the A-Z, as she was from round these parts. With it being a landmark of a sort, it would be a rather suitable idea, I think. Nero

[Nero]

Boris is deffo SE22. Maybe A-Z lady is too SE21? Or we could have a statue of James Nesbitt? Nero

[Ko]

I like the idea of some sort of statue or art on the roundabout. Should have a local connection - eg Enid Blyton or William Blake with angels. I also like the Bellenden bollards - nice to have something different.

[Bellenden Belle]

I saw the consultation form on the desk of Healthmatters when I was in - but I was wondering where they are being distributed (I can't find an online version) and would really like the chance to cast my vote. Any ideas?

[Huguenot]

Mebbe we'd get into trouble with Enid Blyton - she wasn't considered so cool by the PC brigade for a while?

[Keef]

Old Skool Lampost like the one in Narnia >:D

[TillieTrotter]

In that case, I vote for Enid.>:D

[Dannyboy]

Blyton's attitudes and language are pretty dated. But if an actual statue of her might cause controversy, how about a representation of her astonishing rate of literary productivity. More than 800 books, plus magazine articles, and at one point an estimated output of 10,000 words a day (thank you Wikipedia). I am in total awe, even if not all of those words were really complex. How about a monument of a perpetually moving keyboard, probably solar-powered? Those who were so-inclined could even take it as a tribute to the Forum....

[David]

I just got the shiny leaflet in the post this morning. I opened it and assumed it was a parody from a local lobby group moaning about the ridiculous things councils waste their time on... then I registered the logo and legit website address, and, as it dawned on me that it was genuine, my heart sank.

How much is Southwark spending to consult us all on window dressing, while they make decisions about (extending the metaphor) knocking down the walls and converting hospitals to munitions factories behind closed doors?

I think we should commission a situationist theatre ensemble to a bit of durational live art on the roundabout 24/7. Get some hoodies on Modern Apprenticeships and New Deal to perform it. Back in the '70s they did shows with revolving stages -- this could be one with a revolving audience.