Religion.....

[Alan Dale]

removed

[TillieTrotter]

What about Pascals Wager?

[Mark]

Please could a religious person come on here and balance this discussion? Does anyone in East Dulwich believe in a god?

(By the way, I've received my Church of Scientology "BBC Panorama Exposed" DVD today, let me know if you want to borrow it)

[mockney piers]

There's a great review of the two 'documentaries' in today's Private Eye. Well worth a read.

I'll try and get get missus mockney on board, she can kill this argument dead with a stare. Not an argument mind, just a cold, hard, paddingtonesque stare.

[dulwichmum]

Actually Mr Piers,

In the absence of the fragrant Mrs Mockney - I am giving one of those stares at this thread right now...

[Fear 'n boozin]

*runs for the hills* :)

[*Bob*]

It's no surprise that no-one religious wants to stick their head above the parapet on this one. Let's face it, agnostics and atheists have all the best arguments and they've had years to get them straight in their heads.

It's easy to shoot-down believers who try to take the non-believers on at their own game. If you know a little history and a little science (which everyone here does) then you can't lose.

But if somebody popped-up on this thread and simply said: "I know there is a God because I can feel Him" - what would you say?

[mockney piers]

Ooerr missus?

[Fear 'n boozin]

*snigers*

[*Bob*]

That's God for you. Hands everywhere.

[Asset]

I think one can be a spiritual person without necessarily being religious

[citizenED]

But that is exactly the point. Religion is a question of emotion/psychology - not philosophy. Bob's point about shooting down believers is spot on. Its all too easy. The real question is not whether the arguments of religion hold tight, as literally they do not, but whether the magical/mythical stories exert power for the good. The issue is whether religion has had, on balance, a positive influence on the world. On the one hand there is all the sectarian violence, the wars fought in the name of religion and the child-abusing priests etc but on the other you have all the religious charities and the personal salvation offered to many by religion.

citizen

[Keef]

Something that has always really really annoyed me, and has caused arguements with Mrs Keef, is the way a lou of non-religious people act and talk like they're so superior to religious people, who all must be stupid for believing in something. As was pointed out earlier, there is no proof that God doesn't exist... Okay, so the stories in the old testament are not possible, but I don't think most christians would argue that they are. I think they're a collection of stories from which you're meant to gleen morals and values... Just my opinion :-S

[ratty]

Religion is harmless enough in itself. It is the power wielded by those that control it that causes the problem. By all accounts Jesus was a nice fella, but the barbarians (small b) that marauded through europe, burning, raping and generally being coonts in his name obviously were not! A la Mohammed, I am sure he never really wanted Women to have to cover their whole bodies in a black cloth, but someone, probably with an infinitely small nob, decided that this was the way to go!

When someone in Lockerbie killed a dozen or so children with a gun, this country said "OK, you cannot be trusted" Guns are now banned!

They should now do the same with religion! It's just an excuse to repress!

[AnotherPaul]

I wear floppy jerry curls from inside a heavy black hat whilst my wife is required to shave her head and wear a wig. She will also have to walk behind me as she's inferior. I never eat pork or beef. Once I saw a stone statue crying real blood and I own a vile which is full of holy water for 'good luck'. On holiday this year I will visit a church and behold a fragment of a very dead person's hand in a posh case. I can't make decisions for myself having agreed to over-rule my own beliefs and defer power to a bunch of celebate men in very elaborate dresses and hats. I may decide to blow myself up to meet 'him' or a load of virgins. I think aids is bad but that people shouldn't be allowed to use condoms. I also nod at walls believing them to be spiritually imbued.

I may have to stop this religion thing. It's getting in the way of having a life.

[James]

If the Bible really is true, would God not have had the foresight to load it with truths that transcend time and society? Instead the Bible is as dated and rooted in its historical context as a bad Carry On film (I exclude Carry on Camping, which is of course a classic);-)

[TillieTrotter]

Are you excluding that because of Babs Windsors Enormous TalenTS:)

[AnotherPaul]

I think it's vital to think of religion for what it causes. Not the balance of good and bad CitizenED mentioned, for me that comes a by-product of religion. The issue for me is the that believing myths can be dangerous.

By engaging with the god myth, debating it's pros and cons, we actually validate that which is impossible. The myth and it's constructs cease to be the centre of attention and myriad permutations of 'my myth is better than yours?' come to the fore. This shift of focus lets religion off the hook.

Unrealistic as it is I think all religion should be stopped. Nicely.

AP :)

[Keef]

Mrs Keef (who IS NOT religious) has a beautiful bible. It's 2 separate books, and it's set out like a novel as opposed to the classic 2 columns and tiny print. She thinks it's just an amazing piece of literature.

[*Bob*]

James - I think you're being incredibly narrow-minded.

Carry On Dick and Carry On Up The Khyber are well worthy of consideration too.

[Keef]

Carry on "Don't lose your head" was a favourite of mine. French revolution Sid James style... Gold! ;-)

[Jah Lush]

I think you'll find that James was inferring that he's a bit camp.

[Fear 'n boozin]

Apparently Carry on London's in production, starring Shane Richie...can't see it being a classic.

[Ant]

Oh good lord... time to flee.

[Jah Lush]

Why on earth Petes Richens and Richardson would wanna get involved in that - God knows. See what I did there. Oh! please yourselves.