why have we got a 20mph zone?

[macutd]

Why have we got a 20mph zone, if nobody pays any attention to it?

It must have cost a fortune of our money to set up.

Even the speed platforms newly put onto east dulwich grove, supposedly to restrict traffic to 20 mph are completely ignored.

It is not even enforced by the police.

So WHY??

[ed_pete]

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/100011/transport_and_streets/3431/borough_wide_20mph_speed_limit

[mikeb]

That press release is tendentious

[Charles Notice]

La la land bullsh.t

[T&G]

Have you seen the cameras on Peckham Rye the Nunhead side of the park ( left hand side of the road going towards Peckham) what are they for as do not look like normal speed cameras !

[Umertron]

I have seen cars observing the 20 mph speed limit being overtaken on lordship lane. I agree there should be stricter enforcement, to help embed the culture change. I presume this council decision was taken having consulted the police? If so what is the strategy to enforce?

Have any other councils made this decision? I think it is the way forward but it needs to be zone 1 and 2 at least.

[Saffron]

Lewisham is doing this as well. http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/transport/road-safety/Pages/20mph-borough-speed-limit.aspx

[Zaardvark]

Not even buses pay attention to it - and they are monitored by TFL - it is ridiculous - they should either enforce it or get rid of it as it increases danger not decreases it

[first mate]

Umerton,

The police were consulted. They objected to it and thought it was a stupid idea, in that it would create confusion,probably leading to more reckless driving. How right they are. I also think the police indicated they would not enforce.

s'wark Labour launched this with the bonkers idea that it would be self-enforcing.

I try hard to stick to the limit but find it very hard to do when cars accelerate and suddenly pull out to overtake or when they tailgate and falsh their lights in an attempt to force you to go faster. Cyclists also regularly whizz past down th hill and weavw in and out. I too am increasingly resentful at being made to endure this.

[peckham_ryu]

Stark stats supporting 20mph, in The Guardian today:

The road safety charity Brake has some charts that grimly expose the fallacy of this argument [that 20mph is too slow]. If a pedestrian runs in front of a car that is three car lengths away then a driver travelling at 20mph can stop in time. If the car is travelling at 30mph they would hit the person with the equivalent force of the pedestrian falling from a third-storey building.

The Brake link in the article is http://www.brake.org.uk/info-and-resources/facts-advice-research/road-safety-facts/15-facts-a-resources/facts/1255-speed

Edited to add article link: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/01/the-sun-speeding-drivers-campaigns-speed-cameras?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

[Mellors]

Sydenham Hill is significantly more dangerous since the 20mph zone has been introduced. Everyone used to happily tootle along at 30 without a problem. Now the odd person does 20, everyone behind them gets gets furious and overtakes wildly. Bonkers.

[Abe_froeman]

It's part of a class war designed to attack your personal liberty??

[EDOldie]

I think this was part of the Labour manifesto for Southwark when they were elected. So, because of the bizarre way our er, democracy works, they have a mandate from you, the people, to do this. I think it's part of the climate change argument which, either way, could be seen by some as another form of control over our behaviour (is the spell check on this in American?). If you were a bit cynical about politicians that is. Which of course I am not. Trust them completely.

[first mate]

Abe, come on, not helpful. It defintely feels more dangerous, especially at night. We need solutions that work and removing the politics would help.

[kford]

Drive to suit the conditions, keep your eyes on the road, stay off your phone and no-one will get hurt.

[ed_pete]

It's not just Southwark - Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Islington, Camden.... It's a Mayoral/TfL led initiative.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/march/tfl-outlines-new-sites-for-potential-20mph-speed-limits

[davidk]

It's tricky. There are stretches of Lordship Lane, especially the main bit of the high street, where it makes perfect sense. But Sydenham Hill feels horrendously slow. And, as others have said, if it's not going to be enforced then it feels a bit pointless.

That said, it has been shown that average speeds do reduce in 20mph zones, even unenforced ones. I attended a presentation by the City of London Police who produced some data that showed average speeds in The City have reduced by 2mph since the introduction of the 20mph zone. Which doesn't sound like much, but they reckon it reduces the risk of death from a car on pedestrian collision by as much as 25%.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I have no problem with a 20mph limit - in fact it makes a lot of sense on residential roads. But it needs to be enforced. And I don't mean speed bumps... actual traffic police, or average speed cameras.

That said, the SE of the city also needs high frequency, fast and reliable public transport. If the tube, Boris bikes, tram, or similar were an option, I'd probably get rid of my car all together and I am sure many others would too.

It is ridiculous that the tube network is almost entirely missing from the Southeast of London and we have to rely on a rail service similar to those which serves far less densely populated, semi rural areas outside of the Capital.

[njc97]

RRR how is the 20mph limit any different from the 30 mph limit? Or is 30 mph a magical speed which people stick to without enforcement?

[Chirpie]

Barry road is allegedly a mile long which means it takes 3 minutes to drive it at 20mph or 2 minutes at 30mph. I agree it feels really slow at 20 but in fact it probably doesn't make a lot of difference if you consider having to stop at traffic lights etc. the fatality rate at 20mph is 2.5% compared to 20% at 30mph (according to RoSPA) so whilst it is possibly a bit slower- for me it is worth it in residential areas.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I'm not sure I understand your point njc97. Speed limits are not enforced adequately, that's my point - and whilst I welcome slower speeds on residential roads, i don't think painting '20' on the street will make a lot of difference. It is culturally acceptable to speed - look at today's front page of the Sun. It will require a concerted effort (a large part of which is enforcement) to change that. Also, fast, frequent public transport options in our Captial city (all parts of it, not just three quaters, needs to be ensured. Together, less traffic and slower traffic would make London a much more pleasant, efficient and prosperous place imo.

[wulfhound]

It's part of a class war designed to attack your personal liberty??

Who's supposed to be on which side? *confused* - and how come the bright blue City of London are on the same side as deep red Southwark?

That said, the SE of the city also needs high frequency, fast and reliable public transport. If the tube, Boris bikes, tram, or similar were an option, I'd probably get rid of my car all together and I am sure many others would too.

It is ridiculous that the tube network is almost entirely missing from the Southeast of London and we have to rely on a rail service similar to those which serves far less densely populated, semi rural areas outside of the Capital.

You know about this..?

https://www.bromptonbikehire.com/docks/2735-peckham-rye

A touch expensive at ?20 annual membership plus ?2.50/day, but gets the job done. The huge plus with Bromptons is, you can take them on all public transport at any time of day. They're even allowed on the bus, if the luggage space is free.

Gets you discounts on car club membership too - but not on one that has any vehicles round here :(

If you need to hire a car (or use car clubs) semi regularly, Bromptons are also mighty handy in conjunction with that, in that you can ride a couple of miles to pick the car up & chuck it straight in the boot.

[El Presidente]

it's an exercise in wooly minded wishful thinking that confuses everyone. Either make it the limit and enforce it or don't bother. another waste of time and our money by the council.

[first mate]

EP, spot on.

[rabbitears]

Is it really that confusing?