Another view on South London Line

[Maurice]

Travel away for extended rest and one returns to find dear Eileen whipping up another war. As usual, she doesn't allow all the facts to interfere with her David v Goliath billing. For those who think there has been a back room deal to cheat South London on transport need to hear another side of the tale. The ELL is a gift far more worth having.

From the South London Press.

[sophiesofa]

Well I would prefer the South London Line stayed if I had to chose between the two.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Don't see how, unless one lives in New Cross or Brockley.

When is the 'proposed' extension for Queen's Road & Peckham Rye going to be complete?

It's far easier to go via train to Victoria or London Bridge in minutes than to have to tube hop.

[Huggers]

I like to go into London bridge more than anywhere else. It's fantastic. I can be in convent garden or on my way to Bedford in no time via the charing cross connection, actually quicker than when I lived in Pimlico or south ken. Don't diss the Eileen mister.

[woofmarkthedog]

Maurice

Back from the dead then ?

W**F

[Maurice]

Nearly dead dear Woof, but sadly still here to diss dear Eileen. I fear many forget that the ELL includes Phase 2, which I would think far preferable than the SLL. It appears this is all about not making one change on the same platform. Odd.

[njc97]

PGC - the stage 2 extension is due to be finished in time for the olympics in 2012. And unless I'm wrong, you will still be able to get a train to london bridge, it's just the victoria trains that will go.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Yes, but not direct - I'm a direct fan. 7 mins to London Bridge is pretty damn good.

[Jeremy]

njc97 - the London Bridge trains from Denmark Hill (and some of them from Peckham Rye) will be going.

I don't think the East London Line ("London Overground") will be a very useful service for most commuters as it doesn't go directly to Central London.

[Torben Pieknik]

The end of London Bridge trains is a consequence of Thameslink, not the East London Line.

[njc97]

Jeremy - sorry, yes Denmark Hill loses its LB trains, but ED, Peckham Rye and Queens Road will still get them (as will Brockley etc on the other ELL extension). It'll make getting to West End and Canary Wharf much easier, even going to London Bridge there is a payoff between the journey taking longer against being much more frequent.

[Maurice]

Exactly and well put njc97. This about providing more people, with more choice. Not gutting South London transport. But that doesn't fit with the many agendas at work here. There is no way to have both.

[Gimme]

The biggest problem with transport in our area isn't getting into London, it's getting ACROSS London. The network is designed too much like a set of spokes from a radial. This removal of the line to Victoria will make it more difficult to get to Clapham and Battersea as well as Victoria (unless you like sitting on the 37 in traffic for an hour).

What we need is a train or tram that goes Lewisham, Forest Hill, Sydenham, ED, Brixton, Clapham, Battersea, Wandsworth, Barnes, Richmond, Twickenham or something like that and one that goes diagonally down from Lewisham, through Brockley, Nunhead, ED, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham, Balham, Earlsfield, Wimbledon.

What about extending the DLR?

Save having to go into Waterloo or London Bridge only to go back out again.

[Maurice]

The East London Line will go to Clapham High Street and Clapham Junction. Every 10 minutes.

[Applespider]

Whoop de doo! Gosh... what would I rather do? Be able to get to Clapham High St three times more often (where I can't recall the last time I got off/on) or be able to get to Victoria where I go six times a week... hmmmm...

Forgive me if negotiating my way around Clapham Junction's platforms trying to figure out which of the, admittedly, many trains to Victoria I'll actually be able to get on, doesn't rock my world. On the occasions where I've done this (when I lived elsewhere), it's always been a pain in the ass with arriving trains from the southwest generally so packed, it's hard to get on them. I'd far rather be able to get on a direct train to Victoria and back home again in 11 minutes rather than farting about at CJ begging people to move down inside the train. It won't be so bad in the morning with the SE trains still stopping but in the evening it's going to be a pain.

[Maurice]

Oh my dear Apple, of course one forgives you! Boris seems a reasonable chap. Don your pajamas, turn up to his Question Time and demand your 11 minute, no-change journey. You live in East Dulwich for God's sake, you deserve it. Let's face it, those thousands living on stations to be improved by the ELL, well they do live on the wrong side of the tracks. I do love a good Question Time. I shall bring gourmet popcorn.

[Applespider]

Actually, I live closer to Forest Hill station where the ELL will also mean the loss of a route into a central London station - no more Charing Cross trains. Two busy stations used - worse Central London services from both - but great, I'll be able to say my flat is nearer a Tube station. Not really that important to me.

The rail passenger survey showed that most people's destination wherever they got on the train was Victoria and given how few people get off it at the interim stations rather than at the terminus, that would seem to be backed up by reality. Decanting trainloads of people who want to get to that final destination at an interchange which is already stretched (both Clapham Junction and Canada Water) just doesn't seem sensible. I do know that there will be more trains on the Jubilee line which should alleviate the CW situation. I've pushed my way onto trains at CJ, I've seen the scrums when the SLL terminates early at Battersea Park and you get full trainloads trying to get onto the next stopping train.

The thousands on stations being improved by the ELL will only be the subset who want to go to somewhere other than London Bridge on the Jubilee line or into the east part of the City or those who are going south or west from Clapham Junction. Let's face it, the majority who want to go into one of the main termini might have more trains from their local station but will face longer journey times and more hassle to get there.

[Jeremy]

njc97 Wrote:

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> Jeremy - sorry, yes Denmark Hill loses its LB

> trains, but ED, Peckham Rye and Queens Road will

> still get them (as will Brockley etc on the other

> ELL extension). It'll make getting to West End and

> Canary Wharf much easier, even going to London

> Bridge there is a payoff between the journey

> taking longer against being much more frequent.

Isn't the ELL going to run every 10-15 minutes? So not really that convenient. Followed by another two stops on the Jubilee Line to get to London Bridge. And probably a huge queue to get on the Eastbound Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf.

Getting to the West End is already OK, by taking a train from London Bridge to Charing Cross (every few minutes). This almost certainly will not be quicker via Canada Water to Green Park or Bond Street.

I do realise that the ELL will suit some people, but for others the direct link to central London is more important!

[Sandperson]

Wow, Maurice is patronising. I don't like his ideas due to the way that he speaks to people. :'(

[R&A]

Why is it we can't have/fight for both?

People will benefit from the ELL, of course they will

The fact that the majority of people would rather keep the SLL (see network rail survey, support for eileen and EDF responses etc) is by the by

Even with the ELL, south london is still a barren desert compared to north london's transport network

Anyway - i'm ducking out now on this as i sound like a broken record. Sorry for that.

[ayresc]

Ian brown, what a c*ck, I can't believe that guys arrogance. Don't you just want to shake him, wake up!

I assume he doesn't try to commute to town every day from ED, the 185 will get to Victoria in an hour... while training for the marathon I ran it in 40 minutes, what a joke!

The amazing thing is that these guys are obssessed with the figures that stack up behind the ELL, but miss some truths along the way... get this stat, the sale of bikes at Evan Cycles has doubled in South London in 2008 partly because people have given up on the transport system and do we dont blame them?!

[louisiana]

Ninety percent of my journeys are to London Bridge or Charing Cross (from where walk), with quite a few others to Waterloo or Paddington or Kings Cross (to catch an overground). I rarely need to go to west London. I rarely need to go to Canary Wharf area, though I ocasionally go to City Airport. Many of my clients are around Bank, so walking from London Bridge/Canon Street makes most sense. They are going to be pushing a lot more people onto the Tube system.

[woofmarkthedog]

Maurice Wrote:

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> Oh my dear Apple, I do love a good

> Question Time. I shall bring gourmet popcorn.

________________________________________________________

Oh no Maurice not your Gourmet "Popcorn"

I bet it's got the same " homemade" ingredients as your Gourmet Mayo & Ice cream hasn't it.

It's an acquired taste for sure.

W**F

[woofmarkthedog]

Maurice Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh my dear Apple, I do love a good

> Question Time. I shall bring gourmet popcorn.

________________________________________________________

Oh no Maurice not your Gourmet "Popcorn"

I bet it's got the same " homemade" ingredients as your Gourmet Mayo & Ice cream hasn't it.

It's an acquired taste for sure.

W**F

[H]

I don't think the problem is the trains per se, but more that people have chosen to live in these areas as the train line serves where they need to go (at least that is why I am in this area, can't claim to speak for everyone). Radically changing the trains means that it no longer serves the people who live here in the same way it did previously. This will benefit some and but is likely to inconvenience far more people than it will benefit.