Bakerloo line extension consultation open

[craigyboy71]

Get filling in your consultation survey guys! I prefer the Camberwell / Peckham Rye option of course :)

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension

[Earl Aelfheah]

I will complete it, but suspect that it's a fait accompli for Old Kent Road and another 'exciting new quater*' for London

*1 and 2 bedroom flats, as expensive as they are souless, marketed exclusively to overseas investors

[MissKing]

Fill it in!! And share with everyone you know!

[Alex K]

Done.

After the "traffic calming" works on the Walworth Road, the Old Kent Road is by comparison a superhighway. Camberwell and Peckham Rye need that Tube line.

[cle]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> I will complete it, but suspect that it's a fait

> accompli for Old Kent Road and another 'exciting

> new quater*' for London

>

> *1 and 2 bedroom flats, as expensive as they are

> souless, marketed exclusively to overseas

> investors

Yes I completely agree. The 'this won't happen without new development' part was pretty definitive.

But I did my bit - suggested that maybe we could have both branches if it did terminate at Lewisham.

And that 'our route' has two main town centres (plus art school, hospitals/medical school, Peckham Rye interchanges, nightlife) whereas the OKR has nothing in terms of a destination, just retail parks and rubbish.

[cornelia]

Agreed CLE - the interchange aspect is important! OKR doesn't even connect with S. Bermondsey.

[worldwiser]

OKR is nowhere near as bad as Walworth Road which is a choked up embarrassment of a major artery into London. And tens of thousands of people already live along it. Why put a tube line along a road that hardly has anyone living along it, build new housing so that people will move in and therefore justify a new line! It's utter madness. Start with fixing the problems we already have before creating new ones. I mean, build another one along OKR if you want, but Walworth Road clearly comes first.

[James Barber]

Attached is my input to the consultation - we need two extensions. One via the Old Kent Road and one via Camberwell to Herne Hill, Tulse Hill and to Streatham.

Whatever your view please do respond.

[Otta]

"OKR has nothing in terms of a destination, just retail parks and rubbish."

Is a retail park not a destination that people might like to get to?

[????]

I don't want it so should I fill it in?

[cle]

Otta Wrote:

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> "OKR has nothing in terms of a destination, just

> retail parks and rubbish."

>

>

> Is a retail park not a destination that people

> might like to get to?

If you fancy buying a washing machine from Curry's or some tiles from B&Q, and then taking them on the Bakerloo line, perhaps...

[LondonMix]

cle Wrote:

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> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > "OKR has nothing in terms of a destination,

> just

> > retail parks and rubbish."

> >

> >

> > Is a retail park not a destination that people

> > might like to get to?

>

> If you fancy buying a washing machine from Curry's

> or some tiles from B&Q, and then taking them on

> the Bakerloo line, perhaps...

Hahaha! Hadn't thought of that myself...

Anyhow, the article in the BBC says the plan is to have this done by 2030! I'll be an old lady by then but I suppose this is the pace of progress.

[Sazzle30]

Tfl sent me this link this afternoon

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension

Shall be supporting it

Would love the bakerloo to go to Peckham rye, could increase footfall for the Peckham lido :-)

[Loz]

cle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > "OKR has nothing in terms of a destination,

> just

> > retail parks and rubbish."

> >

> >

> > Is a retail park not a destination that people

> > might like to get to?

>

> If you fancy buying a washing machine from Curry's

> or some tiles from B&Q, and then taking them on

> the Bakerloo line, perhaps...

There is a stop on the Croydon tram system that pretty much is only there for IKEA and surrounding shopping parks.

[PeckhamRose]

I also filled it in and preferred PeckhamRye route but where it asks for comments I suggested we could have both like the Northern Line divides. But I did also argue that the Old Kent Road not only is the better road but Walworth Road is less than adequate. Of course it will take many years! But that's fine. We must always think of the future.

[Otta]

I might go and order my washing machine and arrange delivery having seen it in the shop. Or I might go there for ASDA or Toys R us or something. I think there is quite a lot of stuff down OKR, but not being a driver I never go there.

[PeckhamRose]

You may not thank me for this. https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/transport_supporting_paper.pdf

[Countrlass22]

Great finally vote is both extension branches needed dulwich east needs branch.herne hill Catford Lewisham Sydenham peckham rye camberwell.

[lozc]

Alleviating Walworth road is surely urgent; was never a quick moving route but seems a lot worse since all the 'traffic calming' added in recent years.

Streatham route as James suggests seems a sensible addition and I have supported this as well.

My biggest worry is the delay. I accept that actually building it will take time. But do we really need to have so much consultation / impact assessment etc that it will take 9 years from now until work can even start? We can ill afford to delay this kind of infrastructure, given that overcrowding is a problem already. This is not particularly TfLs problem as legislation ties their hands ... more a 'national disease' of being afraid to change things ...

[The Urbanite]

worldwiser Wrote:

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> OKR is nowhere near as bad as Walworth Road which

> is a choked up embarrassment of a major artery

> into London. And tens of thousands of people

> already live along it. Why put a tube line along a

> road that hardly has anyone living along it, build

> new housing so that people will move in and

> therefore justify a new line! It's utter madness.

> Start with fixing the problems we already have

> before creating new ones. I mean, build another

> one along OKR if you want, but Walworth Road

> clearly comes first.

There are perennial problems with crowding on buses along the Old Kent Road at peak times, in spite of numerous frequency increases over the years. It's less about how many people live on the road itself, but how many people are within close walking distance to stops on that road. It's fantastic that it's considered to be worthy of being dubbed a "superhighway" and further a pity that trams aren't in vogue, but in reality I expect average bus speeds are scarcely higher than they are along the Walworth Road.

Peckham Rye already has rail links going in every direction, north, east, south and west. Direct trains to London Bridge, Victoria, the East London Line, several stations across in or on the City's doorstep and St Pancras International, plus significant places in the South of London such as Clapham Junction, Croydon, Lewisham and Bromley. Very few places are so well connected. I think it'd be very difficult to argue that it needs a Tube station more than the Old Kent Road.

East Dulwich dwellers who can reach Lordship Lane easily have decent access by bus to East Dulwich and Denmark Hill stations. Between them, they offer the same fantastic rail links as Peckham Rye. Working close to Waterloo, I used the trains in the morning peak - at East Dulwich, there's usually room to board, even get a seat towards the country end of the platform and I've never been crowded off the Overground or Thameslink service at Denmark Hill - namely because large numbers of health workers and others locally employed/educated get off there. Sometimes I took the bus during the high peak and in all honesty, Walworth Road is a bearable commute. What are train loadings like at Peckham Rye in the mornings?

I say this having lived in East Dulwich since the day I was born. Tube stations in Camberwell and Peckham Rye may well produce some positive externalities for the area, which of course might make the case for some whose primary interest isn't the people moving element. As an individual, I support the Camberwell route as it gives me even more travel options, but I can foresee there possibly being a greater social benefit in the Old Kent Road route being chosen.

[healey]

The Urbanite Wrote:

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> Peckham Rye already has rail links going in every

> direction, north, east, south amd west.

Nothing directly north that crosses the Thames though. That's the main problem.

I can see the merits of the OKR proposal, but the Camberwell/Walworth route also needs better links. One option would be to reopen Camberwell and Walworth overground stations.

Clearly such a move would have both political (NR and TfL) and technical problems to overcome.

[TJ]

I would like to see the link go through the area loosely bordered by Peckham rye to the north, Honor oak to the east, west dulwich to the west and sydenham to the south. There is a huge hole in provisions. Perhaps a lordship lane station... they can knock down the Harvester and put it there...

[James Barber]

Hi Healeay,

Camberwell and Walworth Road rail stations didn't survive an extensive tram network being installed. The trams went but the Bakerloo line extension building works started around that time but then stopped.

So I would suggest people argue for one of two extensions via Camberwell and further south as well as Old Kent Road.

If it fails we plug the Southwark Supertram or reopening those railway stations.

History suggests pushing for all thos things is likely to see none of them come to pass.

[cle]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Healeay,

> Camberwell and Walworth Road rail stations didn't

> survive an extensive tram network being installed.

> The trams went but the Bakerloo line extension

> building works started around that time but then

> stopped.

> So I would suggest people argue for one of two

> extensions via Camberwell and further south as

> well as Old Kent Road.

> If it fails we plug the Southwark Supertram or

> reopening those railway stations.

> History suggests pushing for all thos things is

> likely to see none of them come to pass.

Would these stations have four platforms to allow both Denmark Hill and Herne Hill line trains to stop?

Assuming the Camberwell one would be by The Bear?

[James]

I would be very disappointed if the Old Kent Road route won out. It could indeed benefit from regeneration and improved transport links, but surely we must prioritise plugging gaps in existing infrastructure over regenerating underdeveloped areas? Camberwell especially is crying out for a tube. Where else in London is there such a major hub with hospitals, art colleges etc. so poorly served by public transport? Combine that with the extra interchange possibilities at Peckham Rye and the case is overwhelming. Incidentally, just because Peckham is already a hub doesn't mean it shouldn't have even better connections.