lozzyloz

How about re-branding it as the EDF drinks - with a colourful twist. Might prove a bigger draw. Oh, and nobody from SE5 allowed.

Agree with that sentiment TT though some mothers would disagree with the rewarding bit. Most mothers get little thanks for what is possibly the most important job in the world. Perhaps another thread. Most Dads (me included) don't do half the stuff that mothers do although as Brendan and Keef pointed out earlier, they do have important roles.

Agree you can never fully appreciate it until you have kids. However, the emphasis on guys is more along the lines of "be careful or it's gonna cost you financially for the rest of your life." How stupid was I then 18 years ago!? Having said that for every mother putting up the 'it's all perfect facade', there's at least two others that will tell it how it really is. You only have to look down any high street and see mothers struggling with a buggy loaded with shopping and kids throwing tantrums. You wouldn't buy a car with out test driving it first and you only keep them for a couple of years.

When people are in a relationship then I can understand the peer pressure that can suddenly consume you but given the stark reality message that most mothers (and some dads) will tell you, then surely this would offset the notion that having kids is just happy families. Unless of course you live on a diet of Brady Bunch repeats.

Perhaps they should amalgamate with the single womens thread.

Surely as a child/teenager you must have had inkling that parenting wasn't just a bed of roses? You make the choice of parenting sound like trying out a handy household tip from advice section of Womans Own magazine only to discover later that you're more a Heat magazine reader.

Can I offer you a crate of Strongbow Keef?

No mean achievement considering the subject matter. Good work Asset. You truly are an Asset for ED now;-)

Here we go PGC. Make sure you're sitting. You may need a damp flannel and a sweet cup of tea at hand IOM

Ha! Just found the article you meant to link. It's pretty mind blowing. I probably wont recover from the shock before the weekend.

Sorry Piers but I can't say I find a planned roundabout development on the Isle of Man that dramatic. Were you thinking of something else, in a, roundabout sort of way?

clive3300 I'm not talking about your personal circumstances nor did I refer to privately educated and wealthy people. I'm referring directly to your point that, "Unless you are actually disabled, there is IMO no excuse for not getting getting out there and improving your lot." I think you'll also find that once you strip away the number of people that are legitimately on benefits (also excluding those on child allowance) that there are not MILLIONS abusing the system. Granted there may be thousands which is also a sizeable minority.

clive3300 do you live in the real world? It's very easy to reel off the privileges available to all and sundry but it's really not that simple. there are intelligent people from poor backgrounds who don't make it in life despite the abundance of privileges. Have you ever been raised by an alcoholic, heroin addicted prostitute of a mother? Beaten daily to the point of limbs being broken by a verbally and physically abusive father? Stripped of any self esteem from the people that are meant to raise you? Overlooked because of the colour of your skin, your accent or place of origin? Taken into care and abused by the carers? Housed in a ghetto? etc etc There are endless reasons why some of the 'underprivileged' don't always make it from the bottom of the pile. The ones that do are exceptional people. The ones that don't are stereotyped as MacDonalds eating SS scroungers.

How reassuring to know that Porsche have the quality of the air that we breath close to their hearts. Perhaps Boris should make 4x4's compulsory.

http://www.womenentrepreneur.com/uploadedImages/images/success_stories/woman-of-year-lg.jpg Talking about dunking, I'm assured she's promoting a blend of cocoa and curry powder.

.repeated.

...and swiping your Nintendo!

BRAVE MAN JOKES Man walks into the bedroom with a sheep under his arm while his wife is lying in bed reading. Man says: 'This is the pig I have sex with when you've got a headache.' Wife replies: 'I think you'll find that is a sheep.' Man replies: 'I think you'll find I was talking to the sheep' A man walks into his bedroom and sees his wife packing a suitcase. He asks, 'What are you doing?' She answers, 'I'm moving to London. I heard prostitutes there get paid ?400 for doing what I do for you for free.' Later that night, on her way out, the wife walks into the bedroom and sees her husband packing his suitcase. When she asks him where he's going, he replies, 'I'm coming too I want to see how you live on ?800 a year'.

So true Moos. I can think of two people who were always extremely repulsed at the thought of having kids and I now count them as two of the best examples of motherhood (excepting Mrs LL) I can think of. One has a disabled child and couldn't be happier. On the other hand my parents had four of us and were desperately miserable until the last one was booted from the nest. Now they're just less miserable.

PGC. I agree kids need fathers ... and mothers. Well maybe just parents or at least one or two people (or more) that care, educate and protect the kids. So perhaps it doesn't really matter what the sex is, just as long as that somebody fulfils that role and preferably not the state in the absence of. NatashaD, are you suggesting means testing before you have children?

I work for myself, so sleeping my way to the top can be very satisfying:))

Perhaps it's a subconscious survival of the species thing. Mix up those genes. IMO mixed race people are mostly, healthier, more symmetrical and fitter unlike say, the Royal Family.

If a drug was invented that allowed me to experience the full gamut of emotions that I experience with my kids then I'd be out on the street mugging folk to pay for my next high. It's not all plain sailing though and that's what makes it even better. If you haven't had kids then I can only compare it to a close friendship and the times when you can really deliver on being a good friend and seeing the positive results.

Factors beyond my control prevented me from attending The Herne and I've got a job in Brum the morning after the Gowlett but will do my utmost to attend. Need to catch up on recent EDF postings and new forumites (what do we call veteran posters?).

Option 3. Leave at midnight. Arrive in time for a full english overlooking the sea, then check in and crash out for a couple of hours.