It's a mad mad world Sean. Going back to my original post, I was slightly overstating my ignorance. My curiosity was more about understanding why cazzyr had to make such a forceful point about hetero groups and why she felt so isolated as the only gay etc. Well I'm glad I asked the question. It's seems to have exposed another agenda all together. Nothing to do with sexuality and nothing to do with having to justify an action. Clearly some people feel that because they are in a perceived minority and may have suffered difficult experiences, they arrive at the conclusion that anyone not sharing those experiences must be against them. It's a behaviour that's absolutely normal. You feel vulnerable so you lash out in order to warn people away. At the same time though you often risk alienating those around you that could become part of your community. At the same time you create special rules because you're an exception. Yet these rules, if applied to the mainstream would be totally wrong, like a positive discrimination in reverse. It's a shame that cazzyr feels the need to toss in a string of insults rather than engaging in the debate, but that's her prerogative. I don't think that because you've had a tough time being gay that can be justified. But perhaps it is understandable, which is why many people would want to dig below those feelings to the source of the pain and work out a way to replace it with love rather than hate. Somewhere earlier in this thread I made my peace with cazzyr (which she accepted) because it was never my intention to cause offence, but simply to open up a debate (this is a forum) on a subject which makes a minefield in Mozambique look like a manicured lawn. Some posters have jumped in and deliberately turned up the heat with out actually contributing anything positive. Others have really tried to be sensitive and understand all sides of the discussion. I'll say it again. It doesn't matter what the issue; colour, race, religion, football, wealth, sexuality or which parenting mantra you follow, this is just another example of why some people can get on and live together and others find every reason not to.