Ko

You can also get letter boxes with a very tight hinge - it snaps very hard back into place and is hard to keep open.

Phew - good to hear AP!

AnotherPaul Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Wow, after snorky and I exchanged various ageddons > last week this thread seemed to wither. Then BARA > get out there and stir it up when there is nowt to > stir. So? Btw, my comments and opinions are my own, not Bara's (although I am a member of Bara and have amongst other things been involved in getting trees planted and trying to sort out uneven paving, drainage problems at the local shops etc). AP - do you think my comments are stirring it up?? Everyone should be allowed to have their own opinion on the meeting etc. Btw, I have found some of the arguments on both sides pretty ridiculous.

See comments by Debi on a thread about the Charter school - I also posted on it. http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,4504,page=1

What a horrid thing to come home to. Thanks for the warning! The local bobbie used to do an update which would tell people if there had been a spate of burglaries in the area recently. Haven't seen that newsletter for a while though - does it still exist?

I can't speak for anyone, but I'm guessing that as with anything individuals have a variety of motivations for and against the proposals. About those against the proposals: Some people may think 'its a waste of money and there's no need for the services/its an inefficient use of money' Others may think 'they have no regard for the value of my house' Others may think 'they are setting up in a residential area and have not considered or assessed any potential impacts' Others may think 'they are setting up next to a community centre and/or nursery and have not committed to doing a risk assesesment' Others may think 'I will loss trade over this and may lose my business' Others may think 'public bodies acting as usual without accountability or transparency - what are they up to?' About those for the proposals: Some people may think 'I want a pharmacy open late' Others may think 'I want to make a ton of money out of this pharmacy' Others may think 'they've just got it in for drug users' Others may think 'there aren't any issues I can think of - what's the fuss about?' Etc. And some individuals may just have one of the above views, or may have a mixture of the above views, or have some views that fall under both for and against. A consultation would let all those views be heard. Just like a consultation about Harris Academy would allow all those views to be heard - some seemed to be against the proposals just because of increased parking on their road; others were concerned about the quality of education on offer; others had a variety of other concerns. Consultation is only that though. One has to hope that those making the final decisions do a good and, importantly, fair job. Personally, I thought the meeting was good because everyone was in the same room to discuss it and it was discussed for over 2 hours and then people continued talking for quite some time after (the PCT stayed until late). As someone said above, there was far more to discuss than one can put on this forum. I am spending too much time typing today and not getting other things done!

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If Macey's is the chemist in North Cross Road, I > was also told this on Saturday morning - not only > that Maceys dispenses methadone but that it is a > needle exchange. > I've asked the pharmacist at Maceys and was told Maceys does methadone, but it is NOT a needle exchange.

Maurice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > BARA... efforts to bring an important > issue before the entire community for conversation > and hold public bodies up to high scrutiny. Various community groups are involved in this and are publicising what is going on and what their views are - even amongst those against the proposals, views do vary. Similarly, amongst those for the proposal, people have diffrent reasons for supporting the proposals. Jane Fryer of the PCT did a very good job at the meeting, but her version was a bit too simplistic for my liking because the issues are more complicated and she admitted herself that she was not an expert on the technical points. I liked the woman though and she is the only sensible person from the PCT I have ever met - can someone make her Chief Exec of the PCT please? If the issue had not become public, the end result may or may not have been the same. I have no doubt, however, that now the process in reaching that end result will be more transparent (although probably not completely see through!) and hopefully more responsible, trying to minimise problems before they happen. Bara did obtain a firm commitment from the PCT that the PCT would consult on the services - there is no formal consultation process in the rules, so getting that commitment from the PCT was important and a good outcome.

(Btw, I'm only speaking for me, not Bara. Although I am a Bara member as I've said elsewhere): Put it this way, it transpired at the meeting that it took Tessa Jowell, the PCT and DMC *15 days* to put a response together. Then all 3 parties responded one after another, within two working days of each other. During those first 15 days, all 3 had received detailed questions/letters etc, but none of them responded despite being pressed for an answer. I don't think that timing was a coincidence. If there were no issues to cause concern, there would have been an immediate response to explain the situation. This is not the first time the PCT has had to deal with such an issue. My personal opinion is that they were carefully trying to think of a response which would minimise the impact of the proposals (a damage limitation exercise?), and that response was eventually put forward at the last minute at that Tuesday meeting. As Jonathan Mitchell said, why did the PCT wait until 5 minutes before the meeting (held on *Day 19* after the issue had come to light) to give any sort of proper response, despite having been asked some very comprehensive questions on Day 1?? The issues are still complicated and set around some complex and completely barmy rules and regulations which defy common sense. DMC are still determined to push ahead, and not once did they even respond to any concerns voiced about Gumboots after school club, the youth club etc. I will write more next week as the situation can't be explained in a couple of sentences and isn't as straightforward as what's being argued above. I could easily sit here and write for the next half hour (you're probably thinking - spare me!)

Ko Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > BARA Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > We had invited the local police just in > > case we had a few extremists turn up to cause > > mayhem but everyone was remarkably 'restrained' > in > > their behaviour! > > Ko Wrote: > I've been thinking about this and I'm absolutely > shocked to realise that the people 'causing > mayhem' might have been people like moi and AFN > who were happy to have a bust-up and prevent the > debate carrying on!! The shame! Er... I was serious when I wrote this. After that post about the police being requested to come along, I asked about it. Bara were obliged request police presence because the meeting was wrongly announced in some places as being a 'public meeting' - when in fact it was just the usual Bara meeting. It is a legal (or council) requirement that the police attend a 'public meeting'. Emotions often run high and people, on both sides of the argument, can get upset, angry and even aggressive. In terms of people being afraid of drug users, I wouldn't have minded if a drug user sat next to me, but at the same time I'm guessing some people may have felt differently!

Ganapati Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So is this true or not? Does Maceys the chemist > already dispense Methadone? True. I was surprised to hear this after the pharmacies were the ones who started the petition going on about a needle exchange, but not mentioning about their methadone services. It doesn't change my view about having a needle exchange next to the community centre/playground/after-school club etc without a risk assessment etc. Not got time now, but I will get round to writing what I thought of the meeting at some point. Suffice to say, Mediquick will make a lot of money from the proposed pharmacy and their motivation didn't seem to be the community, nor did they once answer any questions about the impact on the community centre etc and how they would go about managing things in a responsible way. I've already written 2 parargraphs and still have lots to say, but I will do it next week when I have more time! Forgot to add in earlier - Right from the start my personal opinion is that if a late-night-opening needle exchange etc is needed, I would be happier if it were on a well lit main road, and not at the DMC location - and then only happier if at least a risk assessment was carried out beforehand. I live 4 minutes walk from DMC, and 5 minutes walk from the pharmacy on Lordship Lane (top of Barry Rd). I've always said I would be happier if it went on the main road at Lordship Lane. I'm not happy about the DMC location because still no one has set out a responsible, comprehensive approach on dealing with the situation. I have long been on at the council to improve lighting around the residential roads where I live (which I've discussed elsewhere on the forum). If something can go wrong, it certainly won't be helped by the attitudes of some of those involved. Edited to add in last para.

madmanhoagy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you can spend hours on the computer then why > can't we? Isn't your childhood supposed to the > time when you can have fun? Anyway adults are > supposed to have jobs which stop them from posting > annoying comments on forums, you seriously need to > get one. Er...you've learnt how to post then and give as good as you get ;-) We have another 'character' in the making :)

BARA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We had invited the local police just in > case we had a few extremists turn up to cause > mayhem but everyone was remarkably 'restrained' in > their behaviour! I've been thinking about this and I'm absolutely shocked to realise that the people 'causing mayhem' might have been people like moi and AFN who were happy to have a bust-up and prevent the debate carrying on!! The shame!

boosboss Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Great news for the One O'Clock Club! They've just > been awarded ?70k from the Cleaner, Greener, Safer > fund! So, improvements are on their way! Cool! Well done to those who submitted the Cleaner Greener Safer application! I think the CGS scheme is fab, allowing much more direct involvement of and ownership by the public.

I didn't realise that was why the police were there. In all fairness, I think that DMC were the ones most grateful for the police presence ;-) I was surprised at the views at both extremes of the argument. Balance anyone?

Sometimes e-mails do filter through to junk? Good to see Richard has picked this up now. People shouldn't park on the zig zags. Its irresponsible.

Where is the money from the cuts going to be re-invested? (or will it not be re-invested?!) Cuts aren't good.

Disappointing that you haven't heard back. Something should be done about people parking on the zig zags. I have to say that I've always had a good reply from the councillors. Once I did not hear back and I e-mailed again, and the councillor replied straightaway. I normally contact Jonathan Micthell or Richard Thomas - both have been very helpful and certainly more helpful than when I've tried to contact Tessa Jowell. I'm not a lib-dem and don't really follow what their policies are about, but on the local councillor level they have been good.

I would rather see a sensible risk assessment done than people thinking both extremes of the argument. Community Centre is in Darrell Rd, but DMC actually has entrances both on Darrell Rd and CP Rd. The plans to expand the DMC may well include a bigger entrance in Darrell Rd. Both the DMC and the Community Centre run from Crystal Palace Rd all the way to Darrell Rd. All the grounds of the Community Centre, including the playground, adjoin the DMC site.

AFN, I never thought that I might agree with you (!), but consultation should have at least included local councillors. There may be a bigger issue about education resources in the area and any consultation needs to also look at the wider area and long term strategies.

AllforNun Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Is Gumboots just a convenient excuse ? I didn't think I had anything left to say on this topic, but AFN you make a good point. There are two separate Gumboots organisations. Gumboots Community Nursery and Gumboots After School Club. The latter is run out of the ED Community Centre. There are various groups not happy with the pharmacy/needle exchange proposals, one of which is Bara. People in Bara have been heavily involved in the Community Centre for many, many years. So I think Bara's concern for the Community Centre and at least the Gumboots After School Club is completely understandable, and not 'just a convenient excuse'. It was a good point to query though.

AnotherPaul Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Jenny > Did you know there's a public meeting tonight, > 20.15 at the community centre on Crystal Palace > Road? It's about the proposed late night pharmacy > and needle dump. I got a leaflet through the post. Its not an official 'public meeting' (that has various requirements). Its the usual Bara General Meeting, but everyone is welcome to attend. Bara's main topic is the pharmacy, but I've seen that there are also quite a few others topics on the agenda.

We might try Hoopers, or failing that Wishing Well. Thanks.

Anyone know if there is anywhere good around Bellenden Rd to watch the rugby next Sat?

I also remember when the Vale was quite popular - some of my friends practically lived there (although that may have been down to the bar staff). It was a lot smarter than some of other places in ED then. I also remember when Uplands was one of the smarter places to go in ED! Things have changed a lot in the last few years, although I'm glad to say that the EDT and CPT are still good places to go to.