fazer71

It doesn't matter which thread is kept active. Most important thing is there is just the one from now on. This http://hacan.org.uk/blog/ is a good read by John Stewart Hacan. I still don't understand what happened after Nov 2012 ? Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > fazer71 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Ah the thread has been removed. > > > > xxxxx > > Maybe it's just been moved? Whole threads aren't > usually removed? It's been moved to the Lounge. Avoid it stick to this thread.

Reposted from Aircraft noise - have your say... Brockley meeting. 18th March 2014 I attended. Heathrow were there ?but not the air traffic control people? they did a long presentation of aircraft data with a nice PowerPoint lots of charts satellite images and flight path data with images from webtrack. Brockley Forest Hill and East Dulwich in the worst bit a joining circle of highest noise. At the end of the presentation Heathrow view was nothing has changed since 1998 ?other than an increase in the landing approach height for some aircraft.? Residents from Forest Hill and Dulwich Village also attended and surprisingly others from Coulsdon which is way out under the holding stack zone. Heathrow admitted they?ve had a big increase in complaints since Nov 2012 ?It?s also my experience that is around the time I noticed noise levels had increased becoming intense and intrusive in East Dulwich so no coincidence. I?m not the only person who?s noticed so I?m not going Mad ! phew? Heathrow have absolutely no idea why people are noticing the noise more than prior to Nov 2012. It is very odd that the complaints have increased after the END of the trials.! SO It?s a mystery for Heathrow and for us. Possible answers. 1. Webtrack data is wrong / inaccurate and the flight paths have changed. Heathrow stand by their data but can we trust it? (V possible) 2. Following the trial people have a heightened sensitivity. This is Heathrow?s current possible answer. IMO doesn?t make sense. (unlikely) 3. The density of the air over South London has changed more humid causing an increase in sound transfer. (V unlikely) 4. Some element/s on aircraft or engine design has increased the high pitch whistling noise. Heathrow don?t believe anything technical on the aircraft has changed. An instrument hole on the wings of the A320 is known to cause a whistling noise they are looking at shielding the hole to stop the noise. It is also possible the engine turbines on newer aircraft emit the sounds which annoy at approach speeds a noise the older jets didn?t make. It?s also possible that some other technical change has created the noise, a combination of elements. Also this may be a noise which falls outside the test noises which aircraft manufacturers need to control. (V possible) Heathrow appear to be taking the post Nov 2012 noise increase issues very seriously they assured us they are working to find the cause and an answer. They will put sound monitoring equipment in Brockley. (too late imho no data available for pre and post 1998) In the opinion of the many locals Webtrack data is inaccurate or just not precise enough to show the changes. Heathrow say you can?t compare Webtrack with looking in the sky as the human eye can?t judge how high and how far away the aircraft are. (umm V possible) Some believe Webtrack data has been tampered with they don?t trust Heathrow. V possible as there?s no independent data. Heathrow have everything to gain by tweaking it. Quite possible Webtrack doesn?t show that the flight corridors have narrowed since Nov 2012 causing noise in certain areas to be amplified, resulting in consistent constant noise in the same locations for those residents (reflection from hard surfaces amplifying noise etc) which may have resulted in the noise impact becoming more and more noticeable for those residents. Something I learnt which is counter intuitive, a higher approach by a lot of aircraft is more noticeable than a lower approach, as the aircraft are more visible and the spread of noise is carried over a wider area, basic triangulation from a greater height. So the increased height isn?t better and may be contributing. Overall quite frustrating for those of us who are affected and also for Heathrow (at least the bit of Heathrow who attended) as they don?t have an answer but they know something is definitely different.

Ah the thread has been removed. Monday 24th March 2014 Zero noise this morning Heathrow operating easterly preference. Lovely quiet start to the week. [www.flightradar24.com] Yesterday Sunday was constant absolutely awful westerly preference. Must find out what has changed since Nov 2012.

Most people are too scared to get a decorator or builder in to carry out maintenance work, hardly surprising given generations of crooked untrustworthy overpricing nasty trade people which have made 99% of home owners avoid any contact unless absolutely necessary, usually too late. Home owners are clueless on prices. I was once told everything is priced per sq metre or linear metre and that helps work out what most work will cost. It covers everything from tiling a bathroom to building an extension. Anyone who?s been out looking at a home to buy or at neighbour?s home will know home owners / tenants who don?t know or don?t want to know how to use a broom, brush, mop, bucket, sponge they have no idea how to get rid of weeds not a clue about regular maintenance. They allow a progressively worsening filthy unmaintained state to develop around themselves, until gutters are growing turf internal walls are covered in mould windows are rotten and floor joists are riddled with wet / dry rot. They never open their windows and exist in humid overheated unhealthy atmosphere. A whole generation oblivious, clueless people who are prepared to live in mess. Others the minority are obsessively clean with perfect homes. It?s not about having the money it?s about caring and knowing many just don?t know!

Monday 24th March 2014 Zero noise this morning Heathrow operating easterly preference. Lovely quiet start to the week. http://www.flightradar24.com/51.46,-0.17/13#./11?&_suid=139564785234105471023168697888 Yesterday Sunday was constant absolutely awful westerly preference. Must find out what has changed since Nov 2012.

End this thread Click this http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,649585 link for the Aircraft noise - have your say... thread

I?m pretty sick of the trolls morons on this thread is the title (No Aircraft noise - have your say...) nope ?. OK a Revelation of sorts I think I hope? TODAY 20th March 2014 04:30am IE This morning I didn?t hear any aircraft noise until 6:00am And Heathrow is operating on its usual westerly approach so I should have! Why no noise this morning? Because the flights heading into Heathrow are on (what I believe was) the ORIGINAL flight path (the one which follows the Thames.) Run flightradar and select 20th March 2014 04:30 and you will see the flights didn?t go over East Dulwich this morning! http://www.flightradar24.com/2014-03-20/04:31/12x/51.46,-0.17/12 So .. This is what I believed from the beginning. Heathrow must have changed the corridor they were using after the trial as a result since Nov 2012 early morning flights and others have been on a very very narrow corridor further south which had intensified the noise over certain areas ?areas which may have had some noise but since Nov 2012 have suffered from a concentrated constant noise? Heathrow should just go back to the pre Nov 2012 flight corridor (ie the one they used This Morning!). Very Odd I've done some comparison with previous days where the noise was much louder than this morning and the flight path looks very similar. Totally weird ! Maybe the flightradar data is incorrect as now even previous noisy days show the flights further north. Back to square 1 ???? Very very odd. I was wide awake at 4.30am and the aircraft noise was there but distant compared to say the 18th when is was very loud. So could it be atmospheric conditions could it be the flightradar data? Doesn't make any sense !

Brockley meeting. 18th March 2014 I attended. Heathrow were there ?but not the air traffic control people? they did a long presentation of aircraft data with a nice PowerPoint lots of charts satellite images and flight path data with images from webtrack. Brockley Forest Hill and East Dulwich in the worst bit a joining circle of highest noise. At the end of the presentation Heathrow view was nothing has changed since 1998 ?other than an increase in the landing approach height for some aircraft.? Residents from Forest Hill and Dulwich Village also attended and surprisingly others from Coulsdon which is way out under the holding stack zone. Heathrow admitted they?ve had a big increase in complaints since Nov 2012 ?It?s also my experience that is around the time I noticed noise levels had increased becoming intense and intrusive in East Dulwich so no coincidence. I?m not the only person who?s noticed so I?m not going Mad ! phew? Heathrow have absolutely no idea why people are noticing the noise more than prior to Nov 2012. It is very odd that the complaints have increased after the END of the trials.! SO It?s a mystery for Heathrow and for us. Possible answers. 1. Webtrack data is wrong / inaccurate and the flight paths have changed. Heathrow stand by their data but can we trust it? (V possible) 2. Following the trial people have a heightened sensitivity. This is Heathrow?s current possible answer. IMO doesn?t make sense. (unlikely) 3. The density of the air over South London has changed more humid causing an increase in sound transfer. (V unlikely) 4. Some element/s on aircraft or engine design has increased the high pitch whistling noise. Heathrow don?t believe anything technical on the aircraft has changed. An instrument hole on the wings of the A320 is known to cause a whistling noise they are looking at shielding the hole to stop the noise. It is also possible the engine turbines on newer aircraft emit the sounds which annoy at approach speeds a noise the older jets didn?t make. It?s also possible that some other technical change has created the noise, a combination of elements. Also this may be a noise which falls outside the test noises which aircraft manufacturers need to control. (V possible) Heathrow appear to be taking the post Nov 2012 noise increase issues very seriously they assured us they are working to find the cause and an answer. They will put sound monitoring equipment in Brockley. (too late imho no data available for pre and post 1998) In the opinion of the many locals Webtrack data is inaccurate or just not precise enough to show the changes. Heathrow say you can?t compare Webtrack with looking in the sky as the human eye can?t judge how high and how far away the aircraft are. (umm V possible) Some believe Webtrack data has been tampered with they don?t trust Heathrow. V possible as there?s no independent data. Heathrow have everything to gain by tweaking it. Quite possible Webtrack doesn?t show that the flight corridors have narrowed since Nov 2012 causing noise in certain areas to be amplified, resulting in consistent constant noise in the same locations for those residents (reflection from hard surfaces amplifying noise etc) which may have resulted in the noise impact becoming more and more noticeable for those residents. Something I learnt which is counter intuitive, a higher approach by a lot of aircraft is more noticeable than a lower approach, as the aircraft are more visible and the spread of noise is carried over a wider area, basic triangulation from a greater height. So the increased height isn?t better and may be contributing. Overall quite frustrating for those of us who are affected and also for Heathrow (at least the bit of Heathrow who attended) as they don?t have an answer but they know something is definitely different.

This was Vauhxhall East Dulwich is NOW the same.

I'm not plane aware, just not fookin deaf ... First flight 4.25am this morning, already awake in anticipation. More ever couple of mins until 6.15am then the low large older louder jets fly over. As for shouting whilst talking on Lordship Lane sure that's a slight exaggeration, but raising your VOICE & STRUGGLING to HEAR the other person over the jet NOISE, is TRUE. Pre Dec 2012 it wasn't an issue Brockley etc and East Dulwich didn't suffer but now we all do.

Jah Lush Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah, ^ that statement is utter bollocks. I have > never ever ever needed to shout above plane noise > in East Dulwich or anywhere come to think of it. > > You sir, are talking out of your arse. WHAT I CAN't HEAR YOU ?????? Those bloody jets !

It's not about being 'plane-aware' .. When you're on Lordship Lane talking with someone you bumped into and the noise of aircraft going overhead means you need to SHOUT !!!!! You know 100% it's not fvckin 'plane-aware' !! Utter bollocks., ....

healey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > fazer71 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > White Elephant. > > > And why would that be, now that people are moving > in? If people are living there then it isn't IS IT ! But it was before ....

fabfor Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you?d like to know more about why the traffic > has increased since Dec 2012 this is a great source. THIS ^ Exactly, I would like to know .. We know why it was bad over the trial period but why has it remained ? EDIT to add Found this on HACAN Comment historyFlora Poste Flora Poste 4 March 23:45 The East Dulwich forum is full of trolls and/ or people who don't want to acknowledge the impact of Heathrow on the area. They're probably worried about their property values. The noise is just as bad in Dulwich itself.

hpsaucey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Palaeologus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Of course the planes fly over us. They have > done > > for the 26 years that I have lived here and > > decades before. > > > > You don't like planes. Move. > > > > They have been here longer than you. Until > > Politicians build a lovely new airport in a big > > green field in Kent or Essex, they will be > flying > > over for many many decades to come. > > > Christ - deja vu... Sure we've been round this > argument more than once in the past 12 pages... Michael Palaeologus It's never been like THIS! I've lived here for 40 years and I can remember only ever hearing birds in the morning it's changed dramatically in the last couple of years. Why else would the people of Brockley and others near us be screaming about it? Your perception is flawed. If it had always been like this I think I'd know. It's not as though ones hearing improves over 40 years! - True Top Gear what a load of rubbish last night. This morning aircraft noise as loud as hell the rumble drone and whistle pretty intense. It's not hot enough to have the windows open but OMG once it is WTF are we going to do?

Just back home in ED. Drone central. watching top gear and the aircraft noise is constant. drone drone drone.. In the background constant rumble. 99% of people don't want to make a fuss about negative issues. maybe the ostrich in them stops them from making a fuss.

Yes that's what I thought too. FYI it's not an obsession it's an annoyance. Interestingly with the rise in temperature the noise appears to be slightly lower. Even so today Jets droning whistling overhead every few mins.

Saila Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ... but in the short term, it's making the rich > (asset owners) richer and the poor poorer After 2008 it was pretty obvious money in the bank was worthless so everyone who realised that put their money into property. Assets are inflation proof cash is not. Sazzle30 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We have been trying to buy a home, we are first > time time buyers looking around crystal palace ( > cant afford ed!).we put offers on two properties, > one at asking price and one 10k over and both got > rejected back in Jan. > > Now both are back on the market at a 'fantastic > price reduction' according to the estate agents > emails I received.... > > We did successfully put an offer on another- ?5k > over,which was accepted... Our mortgage company > went to do their valuation and deemed it over > valued by 30k and wouldn't give us mortgage unless > the price was reduced inline with their valuation. > Nightmare! > > This made me think that this must be a common > occurrence in London with estate agents hiking > prices and buyers having to place sealed bids? It's weird how valuers have been pricing higher and higher all based on what ? About time sq footage was used to compare properly we're so behind on using technical valuation methods and I don't think it helps anyone.

Someone told me today that, since 9/11 the flight path into Heathrow has slowly been changed which is why we are now under the FP. I can't see that makes any sense.

Back to the noise. Westerly operations today. But flights must have been further north as the noise sounded 1/3 to 1/2 of last weeks levels, that could be down to wind direction but the wind is very light so probably not. From 6.30 did noise did become more intrusive but right now 9.00am nothing ? See flight path below shows many flight are not over ED but over the Thames this morning. http://www.flightradar24.com/51.46,-0.17/13

:)

Wow 2nd day in a row of Heathrow Easterly Landings That's two days I've been able to sleep until 6.30am lovely, I feel great today. :) :)

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Eh? Tax? In the previous (this ^) post?? Oh yea sorry don't know how that happened I must have been on an earlier page. Hey Ho :)

^ THIS It's a double tax on earned income. It's already been taxed so it's a double tax,,, how on earth is that OK ??? Weird Socialist thinking here me thinks. The very rich avoid paying IHT so everyone else gets relatively poorer and that's not good. It should be scrapped or properly applied. Should be inflation linked, it's now become a stealth tax. Shocking. The problem with house prices is the lack of houses if councils build on all the empty plots of land they own then there wouldn't be a housing shortage.

> The lease is new 125years and owned by the vendor. The ground rent starts at ?350p/a and doubles every 25 years. In >addition all of the freeholder's building maintenance costs are expected to be covered by the owners of the flats, not the > freeholder. Sounds cheap a friend just bought a 2 bed in Brixton and ?450 p/a ground rent. If you can buy the freehold. Then it won't matter.