Sephiroth

"I think Johnson will go but no election except in the Tory party." I think this opinion is more widespread However, to back up my view I'm going to say a) a party can't keep getting elected, ditching the leader within a year or two and embarking on a new program from election. If Johnson goes that will be 4th PM in 5 years b) I think the risk assesment leaked this week is likely to be off in some ways and very much on in others - I think next year will be chaos and it will be apparent that the road travelled for last 4 years is now at an end - and no way we can stumble on until 2024. There will need to be a nationwide reassesment and a new election And all of that without Scotland kicking off as an issue again

It's entirely possible glen is a windup merchant but my money is on him being real I know it's comforting to think views like his are a fringe minority - but all you have to do is do a public facing job in a social environment (eg a newsagent) and you will see just how many people actually think like this

Solution to what specifically unc? Pubs? Schools? Brexit? In all cases I can look at other countries and see better management. It?s not hard to find better

"Agreed...but can mounting evidence, and a back catalogue of public misteps eventually give even these guys cause for self-reflection....?" We can but hope - but the repeated cycle so far has been "here is a stark warning - be it from other countries about the virus, or scotland about exams" and the government to do not only ignore them, but to promise their solution is better - until the inevitable uturn and resulting fallout I think Johnson will go, and we will have another election before end of next year - because this lot are tempermentally and inherently ill-suited to the significant challenges faced.

Complaining about Barnier/EU being "nasty" is almost as if some people don't know what international trade negotiations are like You think China, India or USA are not going to be hardnosed in negotiations with UK?

It's definitely true that such a voice is required But the whole point of this government is to remove dissenting voices - it's how they got elected to Get Brexit Done - I can't see them changing their mind now

Would be better if that worst case scenario was part of the referendum and wasn?t decried as project fear

Cat Because it?s a ludicrous situation to voluntarily put a whole country in. If you can remove one of the major risks in that scenario and extend transition, why wouldn?t you?

The sun are running with the powerpoint leaks - a few points A) The Sun - to date, unlikely carriers pf brexit bad news B) the contents - not good right? C) when people say "worst case scenario" they often underestimate what exacrtly a worst case is (see pandemic plans and how that played out this year) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12474511/emergency-plans-perfect-storm-no-deal-brexit-coronavirus-second-wave/ So - is this nonsense? If so, why are this-most-brexit-loyal of governments even discussing these points? If it's not nonsense, why are we even considering proceeding?

Purlease Don't sound so surprised. It's at least 80% of your intention with these threads. I'm partly surprised I held off this long but here you still are giggling away at your ripples again I don't think I'm commenting because we disagree The Guardian is frequently silly. I think we agree on that front I'm commenting because I don't see how it passes the "so what" test. Picking away at silly newspaper articles seems perfectly legit reason for a topic - but to pick on the lowest circulation print publication, one that is most obviously against the current government (and against Corbyn era Labour) seems a bit.. unnecessary? Fish in a barrel? It's not exactly holding power to account. And I know you say you comment across a wide range of topics but really - on the big topics of the day? I dont see much. Endless government U turns and fiascos and people dying with a no deal end of transition brexit months away - and at best you only really try and tweak the noses of critics of the government.

We can speculate as much as we like about what a Corbyn govt would or wouldn?t do. It doesn?t matter a jot The question is - as we approach end of transition - is THIS govt in any way capable of managing any kind of no deal/shit deal Brexit and the attendant challenges? Looking at their logistics planning to date, the answer is not just ?no? but ?dear god no, do what you have to do to save your family now? Even two months ago we could have extended transition. Too late now. Again with hubris and arrogance

Putting aside the ?uniformity of thought? on this forum and the ego required to decide you?re the one to take it on... Given The State of Things in August 2020, with an 80 majority tory govt in ?charge? of said shitshow, why is it you don?t apply such critical thinking to the bigger issues Catty? Like seriously, the ridiculous articles and columnists the guardian seemingly pump out at will (not to mention sales) are inconsequential in the bigger scheme of things Whatever ills require fixing in this country, tackling anything guardian related is merely and indulgence.

?Our social media? Not sure who ?us? is in this sentence but it can?t conceivably mean the whole world including totalitarian regimes with very different ?social media? It seems unlikely that the whole world has the threat wrong

you could well be right JohnL - although with Boris, one gets the impression that even without the virus, he isn't exactly a grafter at the best of times

Ha. Except is hasn?t really has it? It?s still such a bad idea we had to extend transition period twice and only once he purged the party of any sane MPs is he ploughing ahead with no further extension after January - hence panicky building of massive car parks in Kent etc So yes. We actually left in January. But transition means everything is the same. That changes in a few months and will badly impact a country barely recovering from covid round 1 Not taking another extension in the middle of all this is genuinely unforgivable.

We had a chance back in March to get ahead of this and learn the lessons of other countries - we didn't We had a chance in the many month since to implement proper track and trace systems to match the countries doing better than us - we didn't We have a chance now to get ahead of a resurgance and excercise caution - but once again we won't. Collectively, from leadership to too much of the population the view is "let's crack on" oh - and brexit is coming Brace everyone, brace

"I see you?ve all avoided the question why are these boat people paying big bucks to gangsters to risk their lives in overcrowded kiddies? dinghies to try to get to Britain rather than stay in the EU?" I see you haven't read my posts above

In history - let's say 20th century - is there any record of people who were not penniless themselves, fleeing across the world? Including Britain? And how were they treated then? oh...

"The boat people you referred to are economic migrants who probably have more money in their pockets than you or I." am I missing something? why is this remotely relevant. If you are on a dinghy, risking life and limb (and rejection) to get to a country surely you can accept there are bigger issues in their life? Why are they coming here? Because they may have family here? - because they can speak English and not German or French? And why does it bother you SO MUCH?

Blah Blah is, for the record, playing a blinder on this thread Not saying anything remotely controversial, sticking to facts and evidence and science And yet it remains "controversial" for some

Once again, we seem to be having an insular debate without reference to rest of the world It's a global pandemic - most countries dealing well with it use masks without all the pointelss debaites about liberty/but how do I/why should I type questions

Fair enough Foxy - was just asking on the back of a lot of people complaining about being forced to wear a mask

It's about reducing risk - if people are all wearing them in shops and on transport you have reduced the risk You can't elimate ALL risk if infections ris after the facemasks then we could be looking at another lockdown (as per other countries) But what is teh point of the OP? IS it to complain about the masks being compulsory? Or not being universal? It's not clear

from the spoons website "Breakfast served 6am ? 11.30am. Main menu served 11.30am ? 11pm."

ties in with 'spoons breakfast club doesn't it?