Sephiroth

I don?t know most people on this thread I wish we could just go back to blaming ?cliques? Simpler times My tuppence: The thread is the thread. Points were raised. They remain of interest to enough people. Calling for the thread to be closed down is misguided. Threads die when people lose interest and move on. As it should be

I said at the time in 2017 that Corbyn and his supporters took all the wrong messages from that result - it was shortly after the referendum and many remainers were willing to believe he would fight for remain. By the time he begrudgingly came up with his "neutral" 2nd ref offer earlier this year he had aggrivated leavers and remainers alike But more than that, we had an extra 2 years to assess him - and it was not good. Basically inept on most matters, his handling of anti-semitism saw many people simply unable to vote for him Basically - he should have gone after 2017

Godammit Cat!!! malumbu - that wouldn't have worked - as Labour lost more to Labour Remain voters Than Labour Leave voters. With Corbyn in charge after 4 years, Labour were never going to get elected But the problems keep mounting for both parties - As Cat says, unless they change the way the leader is chosen then I can't see them getting out of this hole As for the Tories - they have a load of Labour Leave voters on the promise a) they get it done and b) invest in their communities. It is possible to argue that Johnson will deliver on both of those - but not at the massive expense of many traditional Conservative voters who will be aghast at the massive borrowing required to facilitate

That?s two points I agree with The Cat on in as many days. Well...

"Removed by Admin" Something is up tonight. This isn?t right. This ain?t normal

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Don?t think the Green Party have form on this. you?re so tribal that anyone who criticise the Labour Party is a Tory. ? You are still picking and choosing. I addressed all of this. Nothing tribal here. I hate Corbyn and won?t vote labour But voting green just enables one of Johnson or Corbyn more power. One of them will win. The trick is to prevent both from a majority. Voting green won?t help that (Brighton excepted)

I don?t think Hemingway is voting for either of the main parties. But like I said, one of those parties is who we will get so we have to find a way to deny both of them power. And that CAN mean voting for one of them to deny the other. WITHOUT Wanting either to win but if everyone repulsed by both parties just bites green/indie/etc then the risk is one of the main two gets a big majority. Suboptimal It all totally sucks. But we don?t get a choice as to where we are. Only where we go

"Standing up against racism is not Virtue Signalling." I completely agree - which is why I never accused you of it for that reason I agree with pretty much everything you are saying about Corbyn and his handling of the Labour Party. I applaud the likes of Luciana Berger and all the staff who have testified. I want Corbyn, and his cronies gone. But this is an egregious statement - "Cleary anti-semitism doesn't matter to you.". You have no basis for making that comment whatsoever. You are lashing out and you need to take a breath You say people are equating institutional racism in the Labour party and Johnson's "remarks". But it goes much larger than that doesn't it? The party of "go home vans". Last week we had them saying "enough of EU citizens thinking they could call UK home" . the party which has Tommy Robinson supporting them. The party where the well of golf-club racists vote Tory because they know The tories are getting an incredibly easy ride over their racism problems in comparison. You must realise this? I'm not saying this to say "go Labour" - I'm not voting for them. But you are being completely one-sided "many British Jews are actually terrified about a Corbyn Government" is a true statement and is unnaceptable. They won't feel safe until Corbyn and co are gone. I believe them (equally it's worth listening to many British jews who aren't afraid and continue to support Labour) The whole thing is a shitshow. But you are only calling out one side. That's where I targeted the "virtue signal" comment. Once again I 'm not disagreeing with you about anti-semitism

Whichever way the vote goes, we will have a deeply problematical prim minister, with plenty of ammunition against both with regards to racism Voting for greens (or whoever) as a way of protesting is fine - but it won't stop one of those 2 becoming prime minister We have to decide which would be worse. That's the brutal choice. It isn't possible to vote to allow Johnson to be PM and not be responsible for his repugnant views Nobody gets away with a clear conscience here - we just have to choose the least worst And by targeting ONLY Corbyn as a racist leader, I would say people leave themselves open to accusations of virtue signalling

"Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub members up and down the country, desperately trying to convince themselves and others that a vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly delusional!!" It's a bit of a rock and a hard place. the only route to potentially allowing the country to choose not to proceed with Brexit is via Labour policy. There is no other route But as we can see, Labour themselves don't believe in it, won't campaign for it and so would we really get anywhere? There are still not enough leaders spelling out clearly the problems with leaving - too many people still believe it's a benefit and not a shitshow. I know many people won't change their mind (eg The Cat) but the whole thing is so finely balanced it doesn't need many people to have changed their minds But even tho Labour is the route to that possible reversal, you have to get them elected (a red flag for many) AND trust them to deliver (I don't) But what options do we have

"And name me one successful UK nationalised industry" Isn't a better question - why do you have to put UK in there? Because outside the UK there are many - some of them own UK privatised industry Why can't the UK be successful at it?

"That's right.. I voted for Blair and what did he do ? He sent British Troops to die in Iraq in an 'Illegal' war." Not to support the war in anyway but Majority of uk voters were behind that war after the war they subsequently voted him back in again A democracy doesn't function by wondering how any single voter thinks - its partly a summary of how everyone thinks

Thing is - you are going to get either Johnson or Corbyn. One of those things is going to happen in Dulwich it's easy to vote against either of those two because Labour will win comfortably anyway so it really doesn't matter who you vote for - it's basically free Byt given it's going to be one of those two forming a government it's probably wise to limit their power by having as close to a hung parliament as we have now (yes, the whole thing is pointless - unless you consider the benefit of the loser buggering off and so freeing up an important role come next election) If you live somewhere that is a marginal seat it's important to vote against this government for the party most likely to beat them in that constituency. So yes - if I lived in a Lab/CON marginal I would vote Corbyn even tho I can't stand the man or what he has done to the party. There are enough decent labour MPs with enough decent policy to make that preferable to a 5 year Johnson govt (plus Corbyn is 71 - he won't be around long) Yes it's a lesser of two evils - but pretending it isn't won't help anyone

Ahhhhh. So Marvel is an oldie as well. Should have guessed

What I said was ?have a look at the contents of his hard drive and you wouldn?t see him again? Which means he has exposed enough of his weird mentality on here to make me think it?s tip of the iceberg stuff. I didn?t say he should be reported to the police because of what he says on here alone

Freya I?m not disagreeing with glens ?opinion? on this thread. He has for years spouted racist garbage on here You then go off on a weird diversion about all leave voters. I don?t know why. Perhaps you could clarify Then it gets interesting. You seem keen to point out I?m not native - how does this signify anything? Then you claim I insult English tradespeople. I haven?t. I merely pointed out they don?t usually respond well from initial quote go job completion. They usually cite ?very busy? or ?jobs too small?. That?s their look out I bring it up not as an insult but merely to point out it doesn?t tally with glen?s bogus ?floods of immigrants have driven them out of business? nonsense If that?s insulting every English trades person I would like to know how

The ?rights and wrongs? of publishing photos of criminals seems to be deflecting from someone who is completely out of order (multiple meanings. Feel free to choose your preference) If I was walking my dog and accidentally or otherwise allowed them to do what the OP describes, and I was pictured on here I can absolutely be sure that I would be contrite. I wouldn?t want my picture ON here but I would hold my hands UP, apologise and then request the pictures be removed Pictures on here? Not great but then again cameras are everywhere Stop your public fouling (be it dogs or your own litter) and don?t get so CAPITAL LETTER BADLY SPELLED SHOUTY WEIRD This isn?t hard

Define safe space CM No one benefits from the shite that pours from glen on here. And it contravenes several of the terms and conditions we all sign up to. He spouts his shite, I say he shouldn?t be allowed to get away with it and yet your beef is with me?

Does anyone live anywhere in England where they can call an English electrician, have them turn up when they say they would, get a reasonable quote and then have them complete the job to satisfaction? Because I?ve lived in several different parts of engkand, have friends in many Leave voting cities, and none of us can rely on English tradespeople. Now if we were being ?flooded? you would think the natives could at least raise their game enough to show up. But seemingly not Uncle is spouting his usual array of abuse - the sort which I thought wouldn?t be allowed on here tbh - and the gets even more abusive when called on it (?libtard?. Seriously. I?ve said it before. Get this man?s hard drive to the police and we would never see him walk the streets again. That he teaches/taught children is frightening)

but he is behaving this way because he knows enough voters feel similarly Which is just depressing

it's all the same ignorance (as in lack of knowledge/understanding) as we've seen over last 3-4 years All of this has been pointed out multiple times - not enough people seem to want to hear

Just had a peek on google streetview - you get a view of that wall from 2012 through to no and can see the plain wall as The Mag, before becoming The Patch and that's when it arrived (as Sue already correctly noted)

Cat asks a question two weeks ago, receives several replies. Says nothing Waltzes back in after two weeks and goes ?where?s the party?? Brexit isn?t happening. Been delayed several times. Farage says Johnson deal isn?t Brexit. Whole thing collapses under its own weight as it was always going to What is it you want?

" where the sun doesn?t shine" wonder what the etymology of this phrase is. I suspect it ain't British something it shares with that bottle of Malbec