Sephiroth

Imagine by the time it?s finished it would be a bridge between two eu countries that will no longer be part of the uk

Every single post from Cat has that Passive aggressive ?I look forward to the stream/ posts/ etc? So disagreeing amounts to just another chance to say ?ha. Just as I predicted? Anyway. Your post. It?s just a variation on ?who needs experts? isn?t it? Most people don?t know much about trade it?s true. But we can aggregate a bunch of experts across a range of fields who have a solid consensus. ?Brexit will be bad? Many of us don?t like having to apply, not register, to continue our lives. I know you are an exception But here is who I think you are. On the ?clever scale? you are solid. Steady. But you fancy yourself a bit In the dead of night, you too worry about all of this. You worry about how chancers like Johnson can so brazenly bet the house on this But you are an oppositionist. A reactionary. And given the poor standard of ?leaver? expression on here you have taken it upon yourself to be the bigger fish in a small pond in the mistaken belief it will make you look better But it doesn?t. You?re pushing gear. Drug addicts are victims. But the pushers usually know better. They are the real problem

"oh, did you ask me for supporting evidence?" That was me - you didn't respond you didn't respond either when I answered your question about fishing CiWF don't seem particularly convinced the UK has the high and over EU on animal welfare? https://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/2016/03/compassion-explores-the-pros-and-cons-of-brexit enforcement standards appear to be an issue but that is true of many lawas anywhere - not sure what, specifically, about the EU, and leaving it in particular, helps with

That?s neither true nor relevant

Glen I?m don?t live anywhere inside the m25 My local mp is a hardcore ERG And your list is bobbins http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu-does-not-fund-companies-to-move-jobs-out-of-the-uk/

I'd be interested in reading more about that Jules - any good links?

Just to add - there is nothing arrogant about Barnier/the EU setting out their wish list in these documents - it's standard OP surely? Even if the likes of uncleglen think it's clever to call him "Barmier" But I wouldn't worry - because we have been repeatedly told we hold all the cards and we will have all the deals the day after we leave

"do you disagree about the statement re EU fishing ?" short answer is yes I disagree. Longer answer is access to fishing waters was ALWAYS going to be part of negotiations and the UK has basically given up most of it's leverage. This was always the case but anyone who pointed out was told "project fear" - along with everything else The UK is free to tell the EU to bog off - it just won't be very helpful to us . And this is all just a tiny taste of what's to come, not just with EU but with US, China, India etc Plus - most of the UK catch is sold to Europe anyway. We need access to that market unless we are all going to start eating the fish and bits of fish we currently don't like What else? Oh yeah - fishing is worth basically nothing to our economy compared to most other sectors and yet still people are getting their knickers in a twist

I don't know how anyone could want to be on the same side as uncleglen - if I was a leaver I would be mortified with some of the stuff he comes up with And to be fair to him, the airwaves are full of people equally deluded

Larry Elliott has been a Lexiter for years and years - that makes him as much of a fantastist as the right wing Leavers If you were him, what good comes from brexit if it's controlled by a right wing government for years and years to come? Similar applies in reverse - if you want to implement right wing policy, you have little business allying yourself with someone like Elliot It's still all British/English exceptionalism Other countries are able to take a reading of the pros and cons of the EU, as well as other shifts in global power as well - none of them are reaching the same conclusion ans left or right wing british leavers Why does anyone think that is?

Ian: I would argue the combination of hubris, plucky Brit mentality, classic bad management but blaming external factors are all bound up with Brexit Freya: you can repeat nonsense all you like. No one is saying all leavers are racists. No one. But racists who want foreigners out have latched on to Brexit as a means to and end. Can?t really blame remainers for that. You never see racists post letters saying ?this is England. We want English spoken here but leaving the eu isn?t the correct time or method for this. Let?s stay in a one world government eu project and kick em out that way? I?d say you were in denial - if I thought you were real. Which you might be. Either way. Bad look

I believe you citylover So where do you get notions of ?one world government? from?

You can accuse me of many things. Lack of elaboration isn?t one of them But I?ve listed many points today - as part of my elaboration exercise Perhaps address them? I try and address anything leavers post But your most recent post says it is remainers fault that racists post racist things without any evidence to back it up other than ? we aren?t even smart enough to realise? That makes zero sense

I?m beginning to think Freya is a satirical account at this point Because to believe a real person could write that and believe it beggars belief

Big thanks to ianr who contacted me to point out my post on Norton Motorcycles contained duplicate links rather than the second one being the story of their collapse. Now rectified. (Even if the evidence points to no one caring in first place. Apart from Ian ;-). )

Believe me - we want to hear any good reason for this. Ever reply from a leaver is there for all (and history) to see But facts remain facts. And the cost far outweighs any benefits And no other country feels the way England does It?s possible England have this right, and everyone else from Ireland to Germany via Poland has it wrong But how likely is that? Seriously?

Citylover believes in plans for a one world government. Their language is extremely fekking If their hard drive was examined it would be genuinely frightening

He does. He gets called a remainer a lot but he has a history of wanting out of eu. After Maastricht he just felt the price wasn?t worth paying. Now it?s done he is happy to not rejoin but favours close alignment with all that entails Which is of course anathema to most leavers and their cheerleaders in government If Boris goes down that route his government hits the rocks If he goes down his current route if no alignment/no deal then his government hits the rocks As ever the same problem is reality. And no one ?on that side? has faced up to it yet. They can jeer that we are out of the eu and people like me aren?t facing up to reality. But that?s just whistling in the dark.

Let?s look a Remain voter who ?changed their mind? over Brexit. Did a review of his business and though actually Brexit would be good for his business https://news.sky.com/story/norton-motorbike-boss-brexit-has-kicked-us-up-the-backside-11662637 Fast forward to this year. Oh dear https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal Positive thinking and government support (necessary because of said positive thinking. No point addressing facts) only get you so far Can?t help thinking it will serve as an allegory for the whole debacle in years to come

Quite so, DR And Cat is by some distance the closest to smart on that side of the debate on here in 2020

You are being lied to. By your own government. But the problem is you don?t care Until people care about being lied to this is all futile. Dangerous. But futile

Other things Johnson has done Weeks ago banging on about his ?oven ready deal? over and over This week - constant government sources disputing everything about the deal. Raab lying on the telly this morning about European court of justice being arbiter in disputes not being part of the agreement. It?s there in black and white. We can see it

Let?s take a look at Poland. Wonder if they are looking to leave the oppressive institution of the one world government eu Hmmm. Would appear not Poland, Kantar poll: European Union membership referendum Remain: 94% (+6) Leave: 6% (-6) (5% don?t knows excluded) +/- vs. 21-22 December 2017 Fieldwork: 29-30 January 2020 Sample Size: 1,000

City lover?s language is very indicative of someone who has gone balls deep into Facebook and conspiracy theory websites ?One world government? I ask you People like Cat will pick people like me up on tone, but when leavers spout absolute nonsense, they would rather take a compliment and thank them than debate their position

?A vote that counts? It only counts if what you voted for gives you what you want. And there is zero sign of that If the only thing you want is leaving the eu, then fair enough. But if you want to leave the eu for any significant reason then no. Your vote won?t count because it isn?t based on reality. The cons outweigh the pros. And no amount of voting or positive thinking will change that