Sephiroth

Let?s take a look at Poland. Wonder if they are looking to leave the oppressive institution of the one world government eu Hmmm. Would appear not Poland, Kantar poll: European Union membership referendum Remain: 94% (+6) Leave: 6% (-6) (5% don?t knows excluded) +/- vs. 21-22 December 2017 Fieldwork: 29-30 January 2020 Sample Size: 1,000

City lover?s language is very indicative of someone who has gone balls deep into Facebook and conspiracy theory websites ?One world government? I ask you People like Cat will pick people like me up on tone, but when leavers spout absolute nonsense, they would rather take a compliment and thank them than debate their position

?A vote that counts? It only counts if what you voted for gives you what you want. And there is zero sign of that If the only thing you want is leaving the eu, then fair enough. But if you want to leave the eu for any significant reason then no. Your vote won?t count because it isn?t based on reality. The cons outweigh the pros. And no amount of voting or positive thinking will change that

There was a reason Britain joined and that reason has if anything, intensified So this leaving business will cause a lot of problems, to be sorted out later after we rejoin Well done everyone

"It's kind of fun seeing the bile and ranting here and elsewhere from remainers. How dare those pesky thick racists piss on our chips!" this does seem to be the predominant emotion amongst leavers - imagine doing so much harm for such a petty reason

"Do you think the lack of a plan 4 years later has anything to do with remain leaning MP's trying every means possible to disrupt brexit?" not a single thing.

The vote happened 3+ years ago but for the umpteenth time you can vote for whatever you like - it doesn't mean it's deliverable. And whatever is delivered is going to be less than what we have and by definition unable to please all leavers If the government promises to deliver on a referndum about (say) divorce then it can do that If a government promises to deliver on a referendum to give everyone in the country eternal life - it can't deliver that - even if 99.99% of people vote for it A tiny majority in this country voted for massive ruptions on the promise of easiest deal in history I'm not pretending it didn't happen. I'm not pretending we aren't out of the EU. I'm not trying to argue old points - I'm simply restating the facts that haven't changed. Voting to leave the EU brings with it enormous consequences and hard choices that leavers haven't even begun to face up to yet

Once leavers can agree what they want then perhaps then they can ask Remainers to get on board As things stand they are still a very loose coalition of competing ideologies, which will lead to open hostilities as soon as the hard choices to be made come to pass Nothing has changed - apart from us being out of the EU. All the problems are still the same and have yet to be addressed. I think Cat knows all this and is actually a bit nervous

"divided we fall." well you've made sure the united kingdom falls by simple fact of pursuing brexit, Scotland and NI will be no longer part of UK within 5-10 years

?maybe more neoliberalism, cheap labour, tearing the fabric and traditions of it's members countries? ? I mean you are hardly without an agenda here. And you obviously see the eu as some root of these things But if you think the eu is going to be LESS any of those things in the coming years outside the eu, you have a rude awakening ahead

The eu in 5 years will be much as it is now As will all the meme we countries. I will go back to Ireland and they will all be getting on just fine thanks for asking. They will be pissed off about the British border because despite being repeatedly told you would need one you arrogantly yet constantly said otherwise. Where will the uk be in 5 years time? Looking to get back in to the eu but with a higher price to pay I reckon

"tie" is a very vague concept these days. regardless he will have to find away around it because he will know what happens to the country if he doesn't get an extension as for the food standards thing - many people love to handwave that away with "if it's good enough for the americans" etc But it isn't just about the end product - it's about the lack of animal and welfare standards which require the chlorination for example. Many of the leavers I know are big on animal welfare so it's hard to know how it all squares

What do we think will happen when Johnson requests the 2 year extension?

? Regarding 'If I was a leaver I would also ponder why, if it was such a good idea, other countries aren't picking up a similar baton'- this is an easy one, they simply don't understand what the EU project is about? Only England eh? The sheer, total arrogance of it

Fine arguments exD But have a look at that ?we? in foxys question. It?s all down to ?us? and ?them? He never answers questions about why other countries don?t see the same problems he and other leavers do ?Us? ?Them?

"So what can you do....just argue on the edf I guess..." you can imagine how that makes me feel well - you can do more than imagine

Cat Isn't this the problem? A) it wasn't an election. the outcome was much more serious and other countries would probably build in a super-majority requirement to change the constitutional affairs of the country B) we might not be experts in economics or trades - but we can all read or absorb the message from the people who are. And that message was clear. But then you had people like Gove saying we have had enough of experts So yes - I think it is unacceptable It's the same as the climate change - you have vast majority of scientific data saying it's real and a few outliers saying it isn't - so people seize on the outliers and say "there are two sides" Sometimes there isn't. Not equal sides anyway If I was a leaver I would also ponder why, if it was such a good idea, other countries aren't picking up a similar baton

same is true with the other EU members - still don't see the problem. And neither do they. What is it about england that has it's bee in a bonnet about all of this?

KK - cheers - I think Cat was being cheeky rather than literal. My first instinct was to correct them but felt a bit nitpicky secondly - you think I'm a she? Clearly not everyone got the SeanMacGabhann/Straferjack memo

The Times front page today is a good example of why people like me and others on here won?t let this go Because not only is the idea itself very bad, what?s driving it is worse Does the times know the difference between the EU and the European court of human rights? Yes. Does it know the difference between Luxembourg and Strasbourg? Yes But there needs to be a narrative of ?them? all the time. Even after we leave next year it will still all be baby whining about other countries not giving us what we want. That?s all this has ever been But it?s very dangerous to keep fanning the flames of ?them? - we are heading to a bad place and I?m never going to stop calling it out no matter how many ?look we can agree to differ but let?s be reasonable? types try and blancmange it away

I see ?they? have started the groundwork to lay the blame on it failing What was ?will be glorious? is now ?could be? Translation. ?It won?t be. It will be hot garbage and we need to get excuses in quick? Just like Norway which has the freedom to diverge from eu rules but doesn?t because the pain isn?t worth it, this whole exercise is a colossal waste of time and money to be a rule follower only where we once had a say in the rules, now we won?t. Genius. This could be a golden age, it will be up to us to make it one. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7930155/JACOB-REES-MOGG-shine-bright-sunbeam-certainty-end-long-night-doubt.html

You might not like what I say or the way I say it - but I promise you I'm not trying to score points But nor can I just watch anyone (in this case it's Foxy - repeatedly) just post a load of objectively false nonsense and let it lie - it's bad enough this is happening. It's worse still that the same nonsense gets repeated out of the blue like this

Football matches are not predicated on the notion of NOT playing in the same league as each other If it wasn't for english fears of immigration (and all of the culture that goes with it - media etc) , brexit would not be happening

"I have absolutely no problem with Polish or Romanian builders continuing to work in the U.K." Find a pub having a brexit party on Friday Bring some EU nationals with you - see how they feel. See how you feel Because you might be ok with them - but you well know that all the people who are NOT happy with them voted leave too Unfortunate side-effect? But you're ok with that? Or a sign of something more problematic?

"Leave voters just want to get on with things and make it work. Remain voters want to talk about it for another 4 years and do nothing." No this isn't right Remainers have been asking for 4 years HOW it's going to work - we were TOLD it would be easy, trade deals would fly in and there would be no problems. This is clearly not true. There are no good options in the pipeline remainers want to avoid damaging the united kingdom. Leavers are happy to sacrifice it