Spartacus

Agreed kk but sadly not all humans like to do what is considered sensible, so the market has utilised an ancient law to protect people from themselves.

Thanks ianr That's the page .. sorry everyone else ..

https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/borough-market-forces-shoppers-to-wear-masks-outside-under-obscure-1829-law/?cmpredirect=&s=09

Abe_froeman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How many of them came from the unwashed hordes of > North Cross Road and how many from all of the rest > of Southwark? Interesting question Akin to how many who attended the market this,weekend are asymptomatic ? Answer : nobody knows

Morrison's are leading the way but will this cause more non compliance in smaller shops if the anti masker can't get toilet rolls / baked beans from Morrison's ? BBC News - Coronavirus: Morrisons to ban shoppers who refuse to wear face masks https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55618408

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 2 - 3 Houses on my Road Badly Damaged by Tree > roots involving expensive repair jobs. > > Trees need to be more than 15 feet asway from any > building. > > Bigger trees should be further away.. > > Apart from damage caused by roots, as trees grow > they block out a lot of light. > > If you want to see trees.. go to the Park. > > Foxy You are in a cheerful mood today foxy ?

I saw a long dialogue on twitter today (and I know I'm using social media as an information source) that talked about a supermarket manager who experiences similar problems when customers don't wear masks. The person talked about how they get abuse, despite offering masks to said customers and also how they patrolled the aisles to monitor compliance. However they went on to point out that staff can't enforce the rules and the police are too busy. It's not just small shops that face this problem and whilst it's not good we all have to do what's best to protect ourselves. In this situation, maybe chat to the owners and explain your concerns and highlight that you don't feel comfortable. Remember they are a small business who have over the past year supported the local community by providing an essential service during a global pandemic and managed to keep us all in essentials like toilet rolls, so best to discuss directly rather than going down the reporting route IMHO. Edited to include the link to the twitter feed

sjsl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Agree KK, the problem with the suggestion of > applying the rules with more authority, there just > aren't the resources/manpower... if there were > more community policeman it would help but they > aint there. You can't expect stallholders etc to > enforce the rules. But you could reasonably expect the appointed market officers in the council to enforce the rules or install barriers and one way systems to assist people being able to follow the rules

Playing the devils advocate for a moment Should it be closed or should the current rules be applied with more authority to control / enforce numbers, social distancing and mask wearing ?

BrandNewGuy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Spartacus, I think it means that if you don't have > a garden waste subscription, you can still get it > picked up for free as long as you email them with > your details... otherwise it won't get picked up. If that's the case, and I'm not doubting it, the council needs to clarify it on the information it puts out otherwise confusion will reign and tree abandonment issues will be the chaotic result.

Penguin , just to add context , according to the BBC "Every adult will be offered a coronavirus vaccine by Autumn, Matt Hancock says" Whilst the isolation issue and knock on effects are recognised, young people socialising because they don't like staying in * and then potentially going home to carry undetected infection to their parents / vulnerable family members also needs to be considered in the equation and RIsk factors of going out unnecessarily to things like the burger van at a market. * a few short months / years ago parents complained that their kids didn't go out and socialise as they were online or playing video games, oh the irony of now being told they like to go out to socialise....

snathani Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I wonder how many people here saying the market > should be closed are people who disliked having > the market there anyway. And I wonder how many > people ill in hospital now are there because > having nine months of "stay at home" and cancelled > operations is really bad for our health, but > that's another argument. And as well as what KK said above, if you have been into kings, or know people who work there, you would realise that as well as normal winter pressures, and some admissions caused by delays to treatments over the past year, the vast majority of hospital beds are taken up with Covid patients. ICU staff are supposed to be dedicated to a single patient or two at the max depending on severity of their clinical needs, yet at the moment one nurse in ICU is on average looking after 3 or 4 patients at a time. That's a hell of an ask for someone on a 12 hour shift pattern and we can all help them by social distancing, wearing masks and only going out for truly essential reasons (toilet roll buying for example) The impact of the delays in treatment will become truly apparent when this wave is over so to reduce that issue as much as you personally can, follow the blinking rules, no matter how much it incontinences you because you can't get a portion of street food.

I'm confused The statement "if you have a food and garden waste collection, real Christmas trees can be collected as part of your garden waste subscription collection" implies you need to have paid the annual fee for garden waste to be removed. Like a lot of people, what if you haven't and only have food waste collected, will you need to book a collection or will your tree be picked up regardless ? It's a bit vague and maybe a local councillor can advise !

Abe_froeman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > All you people who were in the market but not > there to buy anything , just there to see how busy > it was, are a much bigger problem than the > customers. > > There are plenty of alternative routes around the > market that you shoild be using instead. Whilst I see your point,some people have to walk through the market to get to Lordship Lane (alternative routes double their journey and potential infection risks) , some may have been picking up goods (pre ordered) from shops on North Cross Road and then there is the added pressure of the market. It's a combination of not staying home unless it's for essential shopping (not sure street food falls into this IMHO) and blind stupidity of failing to social distance and not wearing masks in crowds.

I guess the problem at places like the market with lack of social distancing and mask wearing is that people think they are invincible or immortal until something comes along and knocks them With covid, there is the false belief that it only has a major impact and risks to those with underlying health conditions or over a certain age so the youngish residents of the area think it's okay to take a risk. Recently younger and fit people have been catching it and getting sicker (I wish they could all just go and see how many people of their age groups are in hospital) and even if they get it mildly there is the lingering issues of long covid that effects some. Strangely it's starting to look like, with the new variants and people not following the rules, that the way out of this will be a combination of vaccination and herd immunity* as so many will have had it by the end of this year. The longer term costs to our collective health is unknown and we may see an increase in the number of people dying prematurely over the following years, or financially crippling the social care system by ending up with debilitating conditions (no evidence is available yet for either of these speculations but it's not beyond the realms of possibility) I suspect that very soon we will be required to wear masks everywhere outside of our own homes to enable a sharper downwards curve. 🤔 Maybe those who are caught transgressing the safety of others (including nor wearing a mask when they should) , not taking up the jab if offered or attend anti lockdown protests should have their NHS number recorded and not receive treatment from the NHS or be made to pay for any treatment they do receive in respect of catching Covid. * I'm not advocating herd immunity, just speculating that with rising infections it will occur naturally.

DC I think what rockets is really eluding to is that the council doesn't actually have any baseline data to share , but that's my interpretation of what was written. Even the new road based measuring strips are only going to tell them what the volume of traffic is now, not what it was before LTNs were introduced.

Ex, is that the same 4 steps you followed when discussing the article ?

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I rest my case Damn I wanted that name "Forum Inspector Sue" Does it pay well ? Lots of ice cream sundaes I hope 😂 Joking aside there does seem to be a lot of immature name calling on the forum lately, maybe we need age verification of posters and a compos mentis test when people sign up Sadly I'll pass the age test but the rest is as assured as my posties flying car (I kid you not) I agree with geh, the front line staff are brilliant, it just appears that the overall planning and execution plus the two sorting offices merged into one is the issue that's letting everyone in the SE22 and SE15 areas down. Edited as used mantis not mentis.. a whole new meaning 😱

It was on the site of Monkatsu and was pretty tapas for a while too (I miss that place)

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Spartacus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Your promotion to Maximus Stupidcus is now > complete... Sigh Thank you for your promotion but I don't accept things from strange people !

Ah DC I see you and sephiroth are resorting to playground bully child tactics by name calling If you both want to act as children then respect the fact that you will be treated as such. As a thought, if DC was such an influential figure then it almost implies that we are all sheep who run in wild circles when the Shepard's do something unexpected. Maybe if we didn't seek scapegoats to justify us breaking rules, the virus might have been easier to contain.

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I?m has suffered more covid deaths just today than > Australia has since the beginning of the pandemic > > Spartacus. You are an idiot with your china > bollix Ah Your insult has been delivered because you have nothing of note to say Who's looking like an idiot now for resulting to petty playground name calling because you don't like what someone else has said... I'll leave it there for tonight as I really can't be bothered with people who aren't open for challenges, discussion or differing views.

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Spartacus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > Somehow they stopped it spreading internally > but > > failed to contain it from getting out of China > > For the hard of understanding: > > It. Had. Already. Left. China. By. The. Time They. > Tried. To Contain. It. Internally... First things first The majority, not the minority, feel put upon by rules, regardless and the DC incident just gave them licence to use it as an excuse. Let's look at current behaviour with masks or anti lock down protesters , they certainly aren't Doing it all because one man didn't follow the rules If trust is that thin then we are either sheep lead by the media or quite frankly doomed (captain Mainwaring doomed I say) Using the castle incident is pure lazy excuse making for what people will and won't do Secondly to use your "for the hard of understanding" line For the hard of thinking , how the hell did China contain it so well in one Provence yet allowed it to spread to the,world. It wasn't just a case of a few people having it in small pockets around the world, a large number of people must have had it to create a viral load that infected so many so quickly Therefore open your mind, look at why China could contain it whilst the rest of the world got it so bad and then and only then call me stupid like you basically did above ! There has to be some reason that a country of so many million where it originated from didn't see it explode in all districts yet internationally it escaped like a rabid beast.. you tell me how they stopped it and the rest of the world couldn't because it's not as easy to dismiss as the Tory's are feckless idiots ...

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Spartacus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > DR > > Explain then how China closed its internal > borders > > to contain it mostly to Wuhan but international > > flights / travel exported it to the rest of the > > world. > > > > If the same measures implemented internally to > > contain it to Wuhan in China were used in the > > first place, covid would be no worse than the > last > > SARS outbreak... > > > > Hence why I'm if a mind to look at how the > Chinese > > government let it escape to the rest of the > world > > What bit of ''it would've already been too late'' > did you not understand?... To use your tone if voice, What bit of "how did China contain it" didn't you understand Somehow they stopped it spreading internally but failed to contain it from getting out of China Countries tried to stop it , remember the repatriation flights where people complained about going into quarantine Yet places like Beijing didn't have mass out breaks (unless China have lied to us) Not a conspiracy theory but a genuine question of why wasn't it contained earlier in the way that the rest of China was spared ? It may not have been too late if China had stopped international flights and other transit routes earlier...but carry on shouting into the wind and not actually questioning the fundamental point of how did China contain it?

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Spartacus Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > I actually think it's spreading fast due to > how > > > people behave, no matter what government rule > > is > > > put in, by any government, people won't > follow > > it > > > and the virus goes "that'll do nicely thanks" > > > > Actually, most of us were following the rules, > then Bernard Castle and the failure to show > contrition and/or apologise happened... Which is just a shallow excuse for rule breaking by people who weren't going to respect them anyway. Did he corrupt the French, Spanish or Italians where people also broke the rules ?