yes, it seems the thread did rather turn into 'the keef show', and while I'm glad to read the apology I have never before in the family room seen someones post rubbished in such a way? Quite pathetically I had a restless night mulling over where it all went wrong. Obviously some of the other respondents had picked up on the central theme of my post, being, while we all would prefer to shield our children from the harsher realities of the world, at which point do other peoples feelings and misery outweigh our ability to do so? Also what tactics might be employed to introduce these subjects to our children? Theses are two perfectly valid parenting quandaries and I'm puzzled as to why you seemed unable to pick up on them? Also the irony of Keefs posts are not lost on me, posting on a thread to criticise someone, who has posted a thread to criticise someone? And later worrying that the fact that some forumites know one another, so making it intimidating for others to post, yet quite happily rubbishing my post and intimidating me! All too often threads are picked apart word by word rather than respondents replying to a central theme or question, making painful reading with people constantly sniping at each other, and in this case losing the point of the thread entirely.