david_carnell

The problem with arming police is that it ups the ante. If you think the gun problem is bad now, equipping police with guns as standard will, imo, make things a lot worse. Criminals will then see guns as a necessity because without them they stand little chance of evading the police. Currently, I imagine, that only a real hardcore use guns. With armed police I should think every petty crim will view a gun as a requirement.

I know what alachlan means though. I love pretty traditional and all the lovely things it sells and the staff are for the most-part delightful but, umm, how to put this.... ....they aren't afraid to give you the stuff from the bottom of the bag to get rid of it. Partly it's due to the fact that it isn't self service like many greengrocers so you get little choice of what veg you get and what condition it's in. However, it doesn't happen often and like bawdy-nan I think it's one of the best shops around.

Moos Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >I'm the tall handsome one with the penchant for tweed. I say, ding-dong. Have we met my dear? Allow me to introduce myself.... Very kind BN5. Too kind.

I agree with Keef. I don't trust some of them with a baton let alone a gun.

Hmmm in my haste I seemed to have developed a habit of using words incorrectly - zenith/nadir - me/plonker. Back on topic.....ish The fact that you would like to return to the 60s/70s/1890s is telling. A society bound up in cultural and social conservatism where the height of rebellion was a joint and a mini-skirt. Was I around then, no. And you better believe I'm glad about it. A society where women, homosexuals and ethnic minorities where openly discriminated against; where industrial disputes crippled British industry; and the economy was a basket case. You are welcome to it. Yeah my folks are still alive, bless 'em. Like I said, they moved from Sydenham for work rather than to escape the "hordes" of undesirables. Do they like it? I guess so, they've stayed for 30 years. They probably thought it would be a safe place to raise a family. In fact I think I was lucky to come out as (I hope) a normal chap. The place reeks of small-c conservatism. Most people who live there think pesto is exotic and look for the nearest "Enlgish-theme" pub when on holiday. Have you got the depressing, mental image yet? As for the bollocks bit, well let me elaborate...."70% of children come from single parent families". Really? Do they? Says who? Do you have figures Tony? I hope so, because otherwise that bit would be bollocks wouldn't it? You know, made up - to support your argument.

Working five minutes from the station, I'm afraid Mockers is right, it's a bit of a desert fro good drinking dens. There's a new place on Vauxhall Bridge Rd called the Brass Monkey that, as the review says is a bit soulless and bland but decent enough. There's a fancy bar on near St James as part of a hotel but the name escapes me. Otherwise The Constitution is my favourite. Good luck.

Franklins-owned deli/fruit&veg apparantly. Similar to the one in Kennington. I presume you mean the old tyre shop on the corner?

Phew, where does one even begin on a thread like this after the last couple of pages of hyperbole? @ Tony - this isn't the 70s. We all look back fondly on previous decades and admire all the good we saw without ever failing to ackknowledge problems that existed then. Parts of London back then were horrendously grim but have seen swathes of investment and renewal since. In the 70s men could still legally rape their wives, Irish people were banned from pubs and the National Front enjoyed their nadir. I'd rather not return to those days if that's ok. But to suggest that the answer to crime is to take part in the "great white flight" is naive. I grew up in a suburb similar to yours with parents who had moved from SE London in the late 70s (although for work rather than social reasons) and can honestly say it is one of the most soulless, miserable, insular places I've ever had the misfortune to live in. And their friends who did the same across Surrey and Kent are in worse places. Twee, net-curtain twitching surburbia where gays are exotic and the asian familes cook "funny-smelling food". It's ghastly. And I couldn't wait to leave. I actively chose to come here to live. I'm aware Peckham and East Dulwich have problems regarding crime, anti-social behaviour etc etc but I'd rather stay here and try and do good in my community than flee. What's the quote about allowing evil to prosper when good men do nothing? That's you Tony, you did nothing. You fled to your insular suburbs and now take great pride in letting everyone know what a great choice you've made. I don't care how many black/Jewish/lesbian/asian friends you have, it doesn't disguise your thinly veiled abhorance of anyone not quite like "you/us". I don't know if you're trolling or not, whether you've come from Gumtree or the moon, nor do I really care, but if you continue to espouse such worthless, ill-thought-out bollocks on here you'll get pretty short shrift from all the decent people who live here and give a damn about their community.

Hurrah for the mongrel British! Never have an island race populated through millenia of invasions, rape and pillage been so proud of their pure-bred heritage. Uncannily Moos, you appear to have almost the same ancestral make-up as me. Do you think we could be related through Orgrid the Great (circa 750ad)?

Figures for 2002 showed that Glasgow had a homicide rate of 58.7 people per million of population, the highest rate of any city in western Europe. Belfast was on 55.9, Madrid on 18.4, Paris on 20, London on 26, Amsterdam on 31.3 and Dublin on 18.8 Only Baltic cities such as Vilnius in Lithuania (89) had a higher rate, along with New York (86.5) and Washington (428.7) and Moscow (183.8) Link

Is that a "stab" at irony Brendan?

Yes, of course Jimbo - one would be one too many. However, the current hysteria and paradoxical fear of crime (despite crime levels falling) doesn't help resolve problems like this. In order to avoid knee-jerk reactions the situation needs careful attention, not jingoistic politics. Whatever happened to "tough on the causes of crime"?

South London press have it. No name yet been release although police know victim's identity. Link

jimbo1964 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think this knife crime epidemic is horrific. > However, those advocating fleeing to the Shires > beware. This sort of thing does happen everywhere > (although I'm already worried about where my > little boy will be going to school if I don't get > rich soon). But this is the problem, it is not an epidemic. As TedMax has rightly pointed out knife crime levels are no different to last year and yet the media has us currently whipped up into a frenzy over it. When decent people surrender their neighbourhoods by decamping to "the Shires" we have ourselves to blame for what happens next....if you care for you community, stay and fight for it.

Could have been a screwdriver.... ....or they could have gone home to fetch a kitchen knife. Rumours and hearsay at this point. I agree the OP has attempted to sensationalise this beyond his/her level of knowledge (especially since the thread title has had to be amended). Could we wait and find out a bit more of what has happened before we all declare we're moving to Portsmouth or (godforbid) Lancaster. A tad over-dramatic.

The hilarious escapades of Jesus and Mo! Ruddy brilliant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muffin_top

Enough of your cheek MP, or I'll tell Sir. This week I have been mostly listening to

You're welcome CitizenED. He's one of my faves. As he's playing in town this week (although I'm sadly not going) I thought I'd have a bit of the King (no, the other King)....the King of Rock 'n' Soul! Solomon Burke - Don't Give Up On Me and also, for all you Wire fans the season three closing montage... Solomon Burke - Fast Train

Mmm, indeed, summer.... I Monster - Daydream In Blue

Brendan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > See Huguenot gets it. Well then I must be being rather dense or rather argumentative because I'm afraid I do not. > The reason I say the Science/Religion debate is > pointless is because in my point of view and I > think most people?s, science won ages ago. It may > hold some socio-political credence for > ill-informed communities in places like America > but has little value in a discussion on the nature > of knowledge and the human experience of the > universe. Science has won?! Really? If I thought that were true Brendan I would be a very happy bunny, but alas I rather think the battle has only just got going. If science had really won (outside of your percieved religious bolt-holes in America) then why is a creationist school opening in East Dulwich? Why do people blow themselves up in the name of religion on a daily basis? Why are heretics and heathens still subjected to the death penalty? Why are arguments being fought over patches of desert by two offshoots of Abrahamic religions? Why are religious leaders still seen as community spokesmen? I think I'm beginning to understand your point that human knowledge is limited by our understanding of the universe and the laws of nature but I'm unsure where you plan to run with the point. Does this mean we abandon that kowledge to free our minds or give up critically thinking about the nature of life and the origins of the universe? Edit - well put Mockney. The following, also I think from Adams sums up the anthropic principle rather well:

Huguenot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The anthropic principle - that all the fundamental > natural laws are so finely balanced at the point > that they support life implies some sort of > selection process - does seem to be intrinsically > plausible. > > The scientific community sidesteps the issue by > explaining that since the issue is untestable it > isn't worthy of inclusion with their discipline. > All a little bit convenient. Do you mean the theories explaining why Earth is capable of supporting life compared to other planets or the reasons for the origin of life itself? Both have been widely covered by the scientific community but I'm not sure which one you mean. The anthropic principle can apply to both the cosmos or to Earth only so to be clear......

Someones beaten you to it Chav

Good job she's a distant cousin, eh Mockers (nudge nudge, wink wink). Back to the footy then.... predictions for Sunday? I'll give it to the Spanish 3-2 aet. with Cesc getting the winner!

Indeed he is. Having been PM-ing him over the last few months I'm up to speed on the issues (roughly). The Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Select Committee announced this week they are to have a formal inquiry into the PubCo industry - mainly due to the pressure from Scor46's campaign.