Attack - Oglander Road (at the beginning of October)

[Domitianus]

Keef Wrote:

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> Innit, lets get vigilate on their asses! ;-) I'm

> also happy you're okay blue!

You could vigilante them all you like but they wouldn't be bovvered!!

[citizenED]

Just to add my concerns regarding this, esp in light of the two other recent threads regarding street violence in the area. Glad you are being so rational/reasonable about it Blue10 and trust you are recovering from bri=uises and bruised pride. As the Police have said, such an occurance is rare in ED. Glad that the Forum is giving an opportunity for us to air concerns and share experiences. If it helps to engender that elusive community spirit.

[tiddles]

I am really shocked to hear this - I used to run all around the bellenden streets at night and never, ever, felt threatened. There used to be (?) people around, walking about, and so I felt very comfortable. I am also surprised that no-one heard any 'rumpus' and came out. Please be assured, this is a real one-off and you were jolly unluckey. Surprisingly, i feel more uneasy pounding the steets in the deserted wasteland of 'the upper east side' where people really do seem to be locked behind closed doors (sorry chaps - you've heard this rant before). the other nasty side to this is, I am looking at every non-white bunch of girls for distinguishing marks - white puffa jacket and red bunches, which is horrible. I hate the idea that we can slide into 'daily mail' land and their generalisations, but I am checking out every gang of girls (not boys tho so there is hope) Hang on in there - it really is a very nice area

[Ko]

Blue10, I hope you are okay - you poor thing. Thanks for sharing the information. About what time did it happen? That could help jog people's minds if they were around at the time (coming home from the station perhaps) and saw the girls hanging around.

Also, if you can/don't mind saying, did they want to steal anything? I'm surprised no one came out - you're right, we must all look out for each other.

[Nero]

Jan T,

Enough with the self-flagellation. If the alleged perps were all men, white and over 6' wearing red jackets, you'd be checking out all white men of that description. If they were all female, Chinese and under 5' wearing trainers, you'd do likewise. It's not horrible, it's human nature so don't give yourself a hard time (unless, of course, you actually are racist.) Nero

[Domitianus]

Ko Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blue10, I hope you are okay - you poor thing.

> Thanks for sharing the information. About what

> time did it happen? That could help jog people's

> minds if they were around at the time (coming home

> from the station perhaps) and saw the girls

> hanging around.

>

> Also, if you can/don't mind saying, did they want

> to steal anything? I'm surprised no one came out -

> you're right, we must all look out for each other.

Unfortunately, psychology research tells us that the prospects of people going to the aid of others in such situations is far from guaranteed. I recall a famous case in America many years ago when (the details are a little fuzzy) a woman was attacked and brutally murdered in the street at night and despite the prolonged attack being heard by a large number of people no-one intervened or even, until the last moments, even called the police. The case, particularly the lack of reaction, was so notorious that it attracted researchers to conduct a range of experiments into bystander apathy and the results were not at all encouraging.

If folk are interested I will try and dig out further references.

[snorky]

I can attest that the residents of teh Oglander are- in my experience - one of the only only roads I know here this kind of event would get people out of the doors and onto the streets

Og is a strange one in that at the top end / one way section, everyone knows each other...

C

[Blue10]

The case was surrounding Kitty Genovene and yes, diffusion of responsibility is the term used to describe bystander behaviour.

They asked for a pound and then my bag but the focus was really on the violence, I managed to keep hold of everything some how.

[barrymarshall]

I read somewhere once that the upshot was that people should shout "Emergency!" or "Fire!" instead, as passersby would be more reactive to it.

[Jeremy]

The only real problem I've ever had round here is when a kid snatched my phone a couple of years ago. I ran after him and gave him a bit of a kicking, only for his mate to turn up and snatch it again! Was too exhausted to chase again. Loads of people saw it, but obviously nobody helped out...

[Blue10]

I was screaming for help. People are frightened to intervene, i absolutely understand that however just a call to the police, a front door opening or a shout from a window would have diffused the situation. It's possible that nobody heard me but being such a quiet road I would think that was unlikely.

I think it's important to remember that if five people call the police they will not send five cars, they will send one. Never assume that someone else will make that call.

[tiddles]

thanks nero

jan

[MadWorld74]

I was thinking about this last night on the way home in the dark. Do people have some sort of subconscious thought that if they get pounced on by a kid(s) in the street that they can't fight back, because their attacker(s) are in fact only children?

I asked Mr MW74 who said that regardless if the attacker was 15 or 50 he'd fight back if it meant he escaped; as much as possible, unharmed.

What does everyone else think on this?

And I agree, I can't stand people who see an incident happening and say "It's not my business" and just walk away. That makes my blood boil. I am always ringing the cops about something or other. Call me a curtain twitcher but if it means I help someone in distress who cares!

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I'm not being funny, but if someone thinks they are old enough to start mugging people then they must know they are old enough for a punch in the mouth.

[TillieTrotter]

Hear Hear Chav.

[SeanMacGabhann]

maybe true CWALD, but legally what's the position?

I'm not sure If I was to apprehend one of these girls (go with it, it's hypothetical after all) and bring them to the familial doorstep I would be greeted by an anxious parent all to pleased I informed them of their daughter's early forays into rapscallion-hood before it was all too late

[Brendan]

I tend to see red and attack but it is not always the most sensible option. It has got me into trouble before. When the mist clears and you realise that you are lying on the floor and it is not in a cunning attempt to head-butt people?s shoes but rather a very unpleasant place to be.

Don't know what I would do if it were a group of young girls though. There would be 2 inbred instincts competing with each other.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I got attacked by 2 guys in Paris ages ago at about 4 in the morning and my first instinct was to fight. They didn't get my bag and I was a bit messed up afterwards, but at the time I just reacted instinctively.

I've been in a few potentially life threatening situations and my first instinct has always been to protect myself, my friends or family and fight.

I don't think the age of a group of attackers is really going to be foremost in your mind when attacked, and there is no way a court would hold you responsible for instinctively fighting back, unless you go beyond neccessary force and run after them to beat them up or something.

[Keef]

I'll do everything I can to avoid it, and walk away, but if some teenager decides to get violent with me, I'll smack him, and bo!!ocks to legal position.

Besides, a lot of the 15-16 year olds I see these days are taller than me, and twice as wide!

[downsouth]

It would depend on the situation and whether or not I thought they were armed. Instinctively I would fight them off but bearing in mind their physicality (i.e. male; female; large; small) I would exert as much force as I thought was necessary to get away or, if only one person, apprehend.

[fractionater]

to those who are going to fight back - just remember that we are only around the corner from Peckham where alot of these runts come from...and they are most likely carrying knives or worst still guns!

[MadWorld74]

I agree with CWALD. I would see red I think (hard to say sat at a desk safely indoors) and go hell for leather. Knowing my luck and the fecked up legal system in this country, I would be up on assault charges and the little sh*ts would probably be taking me to court. Defend yourself and you enter dangerous territory. It's almost as if you're meant to roll over and take it.

[Mark]

you can use "reasonable force" to defend yourself according to the law. Kicking the shit out of them to teach them a lesson wouldn't stand as reasonable force, but a punch in the mouth would if it was to stop them from attacking you.

[Cassius]

I honestly don't think you know how you would react when something like that actually happens. Sometimes fear can act like adrenalin and spur you into action, and sometimes it leaves you unable to move - you literally are 'frozen with fear'. I'd like to think that I would be brave and help someone else, but the mind and body don't always act in accordance with each other.

[Brendan]

A good friend of mine is a cop and from what he has said to me you are a lot less likely to get done for defending yourself than we tend to think. You can also use a weapon as long as you weren?t carrying it with intent. So an umbrella, walking stick or set of keys are fine but you can?t carry a taser around.