Attack on Costcutter? (Lounged)

[fish]

Costcutter, opposite Dulwich Library, police and young thugs throwing things in to the shop?

[fish]

Apparently, the Costcutter staff came under attack by some youths, who had been in the shop and then started throwing things at those inside. Don't know if they were up to no good and got caught out and then came back, but the place was

swarming with police. Anyone know what happened?

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Ahh I was wondering what all that commotion was!! heard lots and lots of police cars! But I thought with it being rugby final it might be some people drinking and getting lairy too early! Costcutters is my local and they are pretty nice in costcutters so I cannot imagine why anyone would want to attack them!

[Unkle_Paulie]

i think its time the youth of east dulwich get what they deserve! why should a group of 16 year olds be able to cause pain, terrorise and torment people who work hard and pay taxes to give these kids an education that is clearly thrown back in our faces. may be it will take one of these to kids to be badly hurt in order to get the message through their thicks skulls that what they are doing is wrong!

[Frisco]

"i think its time the youth of east dulwich get what they deserve! why should a group of 16 year olds be able to cause pain, terrorise and torment people who work hard and pay taxes to give these kids an education that is clearly thrown back in our faces."

Perhaps it would be wise to wait until you know what happened before passing judgement and sentence.

[Unkle_Paulie]

oh please! how many attacks have there been recently? and what is there to say that this won't increase! regardless of knowing what happened it would appear that this type of behavior is on the increase and what will it take till this changes... there's already someone who has been hospitalized, a young women who has been attacked. are we meant to sit back and only pass judgment when it suits us??

[Jessie]

as per your previous post Unkle_Paulie, what exactly do you think the youth of East Dulwich (the ones apparently instigating these attacks) actually deserve? Do you really think it is on the increase? Since when?

[Unkle_Paulie]

Jessie, I guess I am just sick and tired of hearing about the youth of today terrorizing people and most of them getting away with it due to the loop hole in the law preventing action due to their age. (this is my opinion, not a statement) I wish I knew what could be done to solve this problem. Perhaps a day out in Brixton prison to show them what life is like on the other side might help! As for whether this is on the increase or not, why is it that in the last 2 weeks or so, there has been a sudden spate of trouble in ED? You tell me if this suggests it's on the increase?

[Scruffy Mummy]

I think it's more that the traffic on this web-site is increasing and therefore we are finding out more about crime that is happening already. I think statistically speaking most crime is committed by people in the age bracket 18-25.

However, street robbery and assault on teenagers and young people is more likely to be committed by other teenagers and young people.

The reality is that a very large percentage of criminal acts like street robbery and assault is carried out by the same percentage of the population.

So, it is only a very small percentage of young people that are behaving in a criminal fashion.

[Frisco]

"oh please! how many attacks have there been recently?"

Well, do you know how many? Or that they are all carried out by 'the youth of East Dulwich'?

"regardless of knowing what happened it would appear that this type of behavior is on the increase and what will it take till this changes..."

Is it on the increase? I'm not aware that it is. As I've commented recently on other threads, ED seemed to be a far more threatening and dangerous place when I came to live here 20 years ago. The main difference between then and now seems to be that violent incidents are almost instantly publicised (no bad thing for catching the perpetrators) on the internet and discussed. The drawback is that some people seem to think that this greater knowledge of what happens is representative of an increase. Personally, I doubt that.

"are we meant to sit back and only pass judgment when it suits us??"

We pay others to pass judgement, and those people are hopefully informed and immune from the influence of hearsay.

[lilolil]

I have lived on the same road for 40yrs and things have changed, of course they have.

Children nowadays have mobile phones, i-pods etc.

We had marbles....................>:D<

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Unkle Paulie - the criminal age of responsibility is 10, so if there is evidence of a crime having been committed by a child from the age of 10 - 13, unless there is proof the kid was lacking mental capacity, they will be prosecuted. Once they reach the age of 14 they will be prosecuted regardless of mental capacity.

The two Bulger murderers were only 11, and they got prosecuted. There are countless other crimes on record where the offender is only 11 or 12, so saying the youths will get away with a crime because of their age is factually incorrect.

[Nero]

There is a general lawlessness in Britain now. Kids have always drunk and smoked early, and parents have often turned a blind eye. But now, the parents themselves are not stopping at zebra crossings, rushing through amber lights, pushing ahead in queues, cycling on pavements, littering. I'm not a Mail reader, but I do sympathise with some of them who can see basic civilities disappearing. Small things like that have a big effect on one's moral and well-being.

[Amelie]

If you read the newspapers from the 17/18/19 centuries you will find the stories are exactly the same, only the names have changed. The Daily Mail has many equally inglorious ancestors, who whipped up such a frenzy of public fear of crime that it resulted in the passing of the Waltham Black Act - a statute which contained 32 separate capital (i.e. death penalty/transportation) offences. There is not general lawlessness in Britain, crime is much better reported by the authorities which makes people think there is more of it. There is a problem with petty red tape which makes dealing with actual crime more difficult. Equally there is a lack of original thinking, which leads to idiotic situations like Camilla Batmangelidj (spelling?) having to write to 1000s of benefactors to keep her place going for the benefit of traumatised children, with the police begging her to stay open longer, and then some idiot at the Home Office decides to cut her grant.

Looking at East Dulwich/Peckham/Camberwell there are no youth clubs, I can't remember the last time I saw the Scouts or Brownies actively recruiting, there is almost nothing for young people to do to keep themselves occupied and their minds stretched. Ironic coming from someone who has no children I know, but I have some sympathy with kids roaming the streets looking for entertainment as there is bugger all else for them to do.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Agreed! At least on my old estate we had football pitches, basketball pitches and an adventure playground that did a holiday club for free. It's half term now, and I have no idea what there is my daughter to do in the area.

[rob]

Maybe they were just upset at the lack of decent organic produce or the - at best - extremely basic range of wines in said Costcutter?

[Keef]

I have to say, I can understand the point about there being nothing for the kids to do, and can possibly understand why it may lead them to shop lift, or do a bit of criminal damage. However, I can't understand why it would lead them to display nasty / violent behaviour. Bored or not, that's just thuggish!

[fish]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have to say, I can understand the point about

> there being nothing for the kids to do, and can

> possibly understand why it may lead them to shop

> lift, or do a bit of criminal damage. However, I

> can't understand why it would lead them to display

> nasty / violent behaviour. Bored or not, that's

> just thuggish!

Quite so.

[Jessie]

Boredom is just one factor to the restlessness of young people today. Add in poverty and deprivation in a society which is mostly focussed on materialism and ownership then surely crimes of violence and robbery can't be a massive surprise? And there's the boredom of nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon, then there's the boredom of years and years with nothing to do, no outlet for creativity, energy etc, and no promise of things ever changing. It's a class and money thing.

[downsouth]

Jessie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Boredom is just one factor to the restlessness of

> young people today. Add in poverty and deprivation

> in a society which is mostly focussed on

> materialism and ownership then surely crimes of

> violence and robbery can't be a massive surprise?

> And there's the boredom of nothing to do on a

> Sunday afternoon, then there's the boredom of

> years and years with nothing to do, no outlet for

> creativity, energy etc, and no promise of things

> ever changing. It's a class and money thing.

Agreed, but discipline and stable family home life are perhaps more important.

[Jah Lush]

Bollocks! Stuff and bloody nonsense. It's got absolutely nothing to do with class or money. I was never bored as a kid. As long as I had a football and a few mates to have a kickabout with I was happy as a sandboy. There are plenty of open green spaces in and around Dulwich for various sporting activities and clubs to join. OK, so not everyone is sports minded, so take up a musical instrument. If you can learn to play the guitar or keyboards or whatever you'll always have a friend. Only mindless morons resort to thuggery.

[Frisco]

"It's half term now, and I have no idea what there is my daughter to do in the area."

I'd like to think the link below would give you the information you need for the ED area, but I can't see it.

http://cypdirectory.southwark.gov.uk/

It seems that holiday schemes may have changes, since childcare mostly became a money-making commercial operation.

[snorky]

we are breeding a whole generation of consumers - they are here to consume the vast swathe of pre planned obselete tat that invades evert single aspect of their life , yet they are smart enought to recognise the brands, but dumb enough to not realise what they are being used as

a sort of happy shopper version of "The Matrix"

Im not saying these kids are blamless, but they are also victims of our present culture - how sick is it that people pay ?100 for an Ipod that deso exactly the same job as something costing 20% of tis price, or buy a mobile phone costing ?250 thats again does the same job as one costing ?9.99 on a contract.

Thye are restless becasue the lives they lead is deeply, intrinsitcally unsatisfying, but they dont yet know it.

I see it every day, when a young single mother of 2 in our street takes her kids to school - if she isnt talking loudly to her friends on her mobile, then she is threatening her young kids for misbehaving or shouting at everyone who passes a glance her way. its sad.

its a sign of dissatisfaction that will also affect the next generation, their values and their ethos.

[Nero]

Amelie, there is a lawlessness. Laws being broken don't have to be big. I don't suggest at all that murder rates are sky high or that everyone is on the fiddle. What I mean is that there is a lack of civility in our urban societies, and the 'little' lawa as some might call them get broken so many times that it becomes the norm. And when someone tries to put it right or at least draw attention to it, they are accused of scaremongering. It is illegal to ride a bike on the pavement, but our police officers rarelhy prosecute. It is illegal to smoke dope in the street, but again, it has kind of become accepted in some parts. Please don't underestimate the sigificance of these infractions. I don't have children, but if I did, I would be very active in trying to make sure these 'little' lawss were adhered to. Nero

[Brendan]

I think there is something to the argument that young people behave badly because they feel that there is no future and place in society for them. In my late teens I hit a point where I could no longer pay for my education (this being a necessity in South Africa) and for a couple of years found myself feeling like there was no future for me and that where I was, was where I was going to be forever. I therefore felt no responsibility towards myself and the society in which I lived and this led to me behaving very badly indeed and doing some insanely reckless and dangerous things. Although none of them involved aggression towards other people.

Although in the UK isn?t the opportunity to get an education, at least theoretically, within everyone?s grasp?