Fined ?75 for dropping a cigar butt - fair?

[macroban]

I'm pretty sure that Southwark Council was generous in giving advance notice to potential violators before starting implementing spot fines for littering smokers. The Council's Strategic Plan envisages increasing revenue from "charges" so perhaps the next step will be fining those who flick ash on the pavement.

For the particular case of this thread a defence may be possible if the butt was dropped within Somerfield's curtilage and not on the public pavement.

[barrymarshall]

On the one hand, it is fair enough to penalise people for littering. However, there are very few places where you can put your used fag-end/cigar butt. It is one thing to fine people, another not to make it easy to get rid of your rubbish.

[KalamityKel]

They've (the council) been threatening to do it in and around Westminter... haven't witnessed anything yet tho... my advise - purchase one of those stubby pouch thingamys :)

[BJL]

KalamityKel Wrote:

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> my advise - purchase one of

> those stubby pouch thingamys :)

They're free.

From Southwark's website:

Get your FREE stubbi holder

You can get a free stubbi holder from community wardens patrolling the borough, or if you are a Southwark resident, send your name and address to [email protected] and your free stubbi holder will be sent through the post.

[Siduhe]

macroban Wrote:

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> For the particular case of this thread a defence

> may be possible if the butt was dropped within

> Somerfield's curtilage and not on the public

> pavement.

Ah, but wouldn't you then be flouting the smoking ban? Which has a max fine of ?200 ;-)

[seanmlow]

What annoyed me was the bin nearest to me DIDN'T have an ashtray. Also, they are hardly easy to see are they? What was so irritating is a bunch of blokes were accross the road chain smoking and slinging their butts - I guess the little weazle was too scared of them!

[macroban]

> Ah, but wouldn't you then be flouting the smoking ban? Which has a max fine of ?200

Knowing the Land Registry plans of some commercial properties in Lordship Lane leads me to think that roughly the first four feet of the pavement from the Somerfield windows belongs to them and not the Council, however, further investigation would be required.

[mockney piers]

I'm loving Mark's idea, could we extend it to everyone we don't like, or even have a forum version?

Perhaps a neon banner on a transgressor signature saying:

"I complained about too many claphamites hating iceland/old locals hating green & blue and must display this banner for a day. Please avoid me"

[KalamityKel]

No no that would suggest a the "humiliation" techinique... some dont like that ;-)

[SteveT]

Seanmlow I think you could use your anger positively.

Giving up and buying that extortionately priced gum to alleviate the symptoms, would leave you much freer to stick the two fingers of both hands up to anyone in a red jacket.

[paragon]

Slightly off-topic but I read Allen Carr's book and then quit smoking 10 days ago. So far so good we shall see but I feel very positive about it and would recommend the book to anyone.

[seanmlow]

I used to smoke 40 fags a day and only have the odd cigar - just my luck!

[seanmlow]

Who do I write to if I want to complain? Not contest it - I am going to pay but want to write to the relevant person.

[KalamityKel]

Does it not say on the "fine"?

[seanmlow]

No it doesn't.

I still can't believe how much it is!

[McSporran]

Absolutely fair!

And you should be back-charged for all the other butts you've dropped over the years.

I've never understood why it's socially unacceptable to drop litter, but absolutely fine to drop burning fag-ends wherever you like. Or why it's wrong to empty your car ash-tray at traffic lights, but okay to drop single fag-ends.

[seanmlow]

McSporran -

Missing the point. These fools would not appraoch groups at the pub who drop millions of fag ends as they are basically little weazles who are drunk with power.

They need to provide places to get rid of fag ends - was i meant to trail up and down LL until I found a bin with an ashtray on a freezing night? No.

[Andyng]

Yes it is fair if there was no fine everyone would do it

everyone who litter should be fined

[seanmlow]

Andyng -

Very clever - shall we fine everyone ?75 then? Or maybe it will be a good idea for the fine to reflect the crime?

We don't need these dim wits going round reading people their rights like they are armed robbers. Waste of tax payers money.

They were obviously not very bright individuals and it winds me up that they get paid MORE THAN TRAINEE NURSES!

[*Bob*]

Frustrated butt-end droppers should just make a beeline for the main drag in Camberwell.

Take it from me.. no-one gives a monkeys over there. You can gob on the pavement as well - whenever you like.

[jimbo1964]

At least a cigar butt is biodegradable, it's just a bunch of leaves.

[Mark]

seanmlow

I think it's a bit crap of you to refer to the people who fined you as "dim-wits", "fools" and "not very bright individuals", they are people doing their job. You did wrong, not them, get over it.

added: ps it's a minimum of ?60, maximum ?1000 fine and three points on your licence for jumping a red light, just ?60 as you mentioned earlier

[edited once]

[gerry]

Sean

Just saw this thread now, and yes, I agree, its not nice being fined for something so trivial when school kids and adults are mugged every day in East Dulwich and nothing happens to prevent that!!! The council just wants to make money, forget about protecting young people and adults trying to walk home from school or get off a bus. There's my rant in defense of you.

[Mark]

gerry Wrote:

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> school kids and adults are mugged every day in East Dulwich and nothing happens to prevent that!!!

where do you get your information from Gerry?

[McSporran]

seanmlow

my missing the point was deliberate, you were caught and fined, it's a fair cop guv. the other people got away this time, as do millions of other misdemeanours every day.

life just ain't fair is it?