Beer Prices in East Dulwich (Lounged)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

This is not going to help your argument Mark, but I actually prefer a decent head on a pint of ale - I'd rather that than a full pint of liquid.

[scor46]

Chavwivalawdegree, Thanks very much for your comments, I will be in touch with you

[Mark Dodds]

Can't argue with you Pekhamgatecrasher - a head is an aesthetically and texturally pleasing part of a beer. The debate about what should be a standard beer measure that rears up every few years in the pub trade press. The last time people were pontificating at exceeding length about weights and measures and what is a pint and when is a pint not a pint and how drinkers in the Midlands demand a pint to the brim without a head and those in the north demand a head above a pint line in an 'ovesrsize' glass and how those in the south are more demanding and and and... and whether beer tastes better with or without a head. Drivel. I contributed to this debate by pointing out how simple it is and that we should be using metric measures and glasses should have a line at the right measure with room for a head above the line. That got ridiculed out pretty quick.

[steele]

Hi all

Just reading about beer prices in east dulwich ,myself and 3 friends had a lovely sunday carvery for ?8.50 .I had a pint of fosters at ?2.90 ,my girlfriend had a large G&T for ?5.60.Trev had a pint of stella ?3.10 and peter had a guinness at ?3.10, i asked the barman are the prices were correct as it seemed to cheap compered to the rest of the pubs in dulwich and he said all prem largers were ?3.10 a pint and standard spirts were ?2.20, a glass of house white was only ?2.90 .

So i think these prices do venerate the vale.

Regards

Steele

[*Bob*]

Watch out though, Steele - prices at The vale are on the rise.

The excellent carvery was only ?7.95 last time you plugged it a few weeks back - in your only other post.

[Jeremy]

I know this is a naive question, so forgive me... but if you're thinking of buying a pub, why would you lease from a pubco rather than going it alone and opening a free house? What's the main issue? Is it the diffculty in obtaining planning permission / change of use for the premises? Cost of re-fitting?

[Floating Onion]

What's with all the new users flooding out in support of the Vale? Steele & john paul seem very happy to support it. Repeatedly. Shame they don't seem to comment on anything else on the forum.

[Brendan]

On the subject of beer prices. Is there anywhere apart from the Castle where you can still get a pint of Guinness for under 3 quid?

[scor46]

Good question Jeremy and to answer it you have to know a little bit about the history of the pub so here goes:

Since 1989 the pubcos have been aggressively purchasing freehold pubs, in 2001 they owned 30,800 of the 57,000 pubs in the Country. The Monopolies and Mergers Commission's (MMC's) reported in 1989, "The Supply of Beer" gave birth, pub companies barely existed in the UK, yet by 2004 just two pubcos, Enterprise Inns and Punch Taverns, owned more than 25% of all the pubs in the land.

According to the BBPA Statistics for 2007 there are 23,900 tied pubs with Pubcos, 6,900 with brewers, which mean there are 30,800 tied lease/tenancies. There is a further 9,000 pubs are the managed houses of Pubcos and brewers. Although there are 90,000 full on licences it has been estimated that 65,000 are traditional pubs/clubs the remaining being cafes, restaurants hotels and some clubs. Some of those independent pubs may also have a form of tie arising from a free trade loan.

In short the pubcos bought every pub they could and their ?tied? estate became the cornerstone of the pub industry, as we know it. They call it the pubco ?model?. The pubs they didn?t buy were not making profits or the turnover was so poor they could not fit them into their model. Today, there are still hundreds & hundreds of free of tie pubs up for sale, the pubcos are not interested because they don?t fit into their model.

The Licensing Act in 2003 was introduced to regulate the sale of alcohol, The legislation basically put a stop to new licenses being given out by the local councils because the controlling measures were placed upon their own heads. Incidentally, this also made the pubcos model stronger.

So there you have it, the pubs that are left generally are not worth having, and it has became difficult because of legislation, to open your own free house.

Predictions for this year alone:

5,000 pubs to close permanently, 10000 tenant pubs to change hands in the next 12 months. How many more will close permanently is still open to debate.

Dont forget to sign this:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Pubcos

[4hw]

Steele's message is absolutely comical! What kind of person knows that much about the price of the drinks he and his friends have? Clearly the owner/manager of the vale or similar.

[KalamityKel]

Or someone who likes to know what they're paying when and where! :-|

[mockney piers]

I love the way he slipped in about the vale's veneration.

Vindication? Possibly. Renovation? Probably. But Veneration?!?! No way Jos?!!!

[Michael Palaeologus]

The Vale may have changed Mockers. After all, you have not been in there for years.

[4hw]

My favourite bit of Steele's narrative is where the barman happens to tell him even more about the prices of drinks there, so he can slip in the cost of spirits and the house wine in addition to the beer prices 'trev' and 'peter' paid. It's painfully transparent.

[steele]

LOL

Well theres a price list on the wall.

And yes i do like to know what im paying when i order drinks

Doesent everyone !

[scor46]

Just following on from my earlier post, I just want to share with you a couple of posts that were made today on the Morning Advertiser's website:

10 March 2008

My name is Nigel Rose a father of three young children at The New Cross Keys in Pontefract I took over this pub on the 14th Dec 2006, I at the time had 3 properties to rent a good job thinking I could eventually leave work and be a full time landlord but that was not to be with all the stress I have lost my job and I have had to sell two of my properties. This has not helped I am up to my eyeballs in debt with a debt management agency trying to help me. I cant sleep at night I have through out being a licensee have wanted to take my own life if it wasn't for my 3 children I dont think id have made it to 2008. Its not our fault its the brewery charging to much rent. There are several pubs in Pontefract owned by this brewery, Turks Head, the Woodman, Antix and one just down the road in Featherstone the Jubilee Hotel all shut down to name but a few because of the high rent. While im typing this in I feel sick to the core that my families future as been turned upside down . We need the help of the government theres no where else to turn theres that many wolves at my door its not fair. Please give me a chance to turn this business around its all we've got.

Nigel Rose

10 March 2008

I feel exactly the same ,just transfered my post office pension for lump sum to pay off pubco but slightly short so wont give me a weeks credit till payed off ,my rents just increased ,selling my house to try and pay other debts,embarrissingly keep breaking down in tears when im on my own,feel suicidal everyday ,but the thought of leaving my family to sort the mess out keeps me going.

Stodgy89

You can see these posts here:

http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/thread/2549/28579/The-new-cross-key-in-pontefract.aspx?#Posting28579

If you feel that you want to do something about this then sign here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Pubcos/

[spadetownboy]

Floating Onion Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What's with all the new users flooding out in

> support of the Vale? Steele & john paul seem very

> happy to support it. Repeatedly. Shame they

> don't seem to comment on anything else on the

> forum.

i,ll support it,have always drank there and have never had a prob,while unfortunately others had, but then again i,ve had some probs in some of the other ed joints while others probably haven,t, so each to their own really.

[Sue]

Some of the posts on this thread have really opened my eyes. I had no idea about this pubco thing. I've signed the petition.

Just hope something can be done about it.

:)

[macroban]

The budget introduces the ?4 pint for East Dulwich?

[david_carnell]

Not unless the beer was already ?3.96 a pint. And if you pay that for a pint already this isn't going to make much difference.

Beer duty has only risen 4p a pint.

Wine is up 14p a bottle and spirits up by 55p a bottle.

[*Bob*]

Like upping the tax on fags, the price rises are meaningless.

Regardless, people will still be moaning about spending a whole couple of quid on a decent item of food (required for sustaining life) whilst thinking nothing about getting no change ?20 buying a round of alcoholic drinks (which just get pissed up a wall - sometimes literally, unfortunately.. where are those street wardens when you need them?)

[david_carnell]

If, as the government suggests, the price rises are meant as a deterrent they would make a packet of cigs ?20 and be done with it. Almost everyone would agree it was too much to pay and pack in smoking. But it's not. It's a revenue raiser and is increased slightly above inflation to give the impression of a deterrent.

Small brewers get a discount however...so buy from the little fella.

[Christopher]

The ?4.00 pint was on its way before the budget anyway - there has already been huge hikes in import duty, production costs etc - even the production of glass for bottles has gone up... also watch out for the ?4 house wine and the ?4 G&T coming your way soon!

[Cassius]

I rather foolishly bought a pint and a half of rather exotic looking wheatbeer near Trafalgar Square and it came to ?7.10 for the two.

[scor46]

Sorry guys!! 4p at cost, 20-25p at selling price