Gay Bar in Dulwich? (Lounged)

[Jah Lush]

I'm with James and Keef on this one. My brother is gay and he mixes with all sorts and has all kinds of different interests just like the rest of us. I think at times he feels more comfortable in a gay bar rather than a straight one but then he'll hang out in all kinds of different places. He even goes to the Arsenal (boo hiss) with his boyfriend to watch the football these days and I never in a million years thought he'd take an interest in the beautiful game but it takes all sorts.

[Strawbs]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> I

> think at times he feels more comfortable in a gay

> bar rather than a straight one but then he'll hang

> out in all kinds of different places.

Which is exactly what I do.

[Keef]

No not speaking for everyone at all Strawbs, never said I was, and even said I was being a bit silly.

If you'd rather be in an all gay surrounding with your partner then fair enough. But "rest assured the little girls that come in that arent really in our gang are pretty much spotted straight away and shunned" just surprised me a bit that's all.

[Brendan]

I don?t see any problem at all with establishments which cater exclusively for any one group. And if they have rules to enforce that so be it. They aren?t laws. Just as long as people aren?t cunts about it.

If you want to have an establishment that is gay only, men only, women only, 18-25 only or whatever because the people who attend feel more comfortable that way go ahead is what I say. As long as you aren?t discriminating against anyone with regards to employment, education, legal representation etc.

This is not to say that I personally would patronise such places (I kinda like diving headlong into a mix of all sorts). I just don?t see a problem with it.

[NatashaD]

I would not want a gay bar in Dulwich thank you.

[Jah Lush]

NatashaD Wrote:

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> I would not want a gay bar in Dulwich thank you.

Why not? Could you expand a bit more as to why you would be opposed to such an establishment opening here please.

[Jaws]

Ooooo Errrrrrrr...

I've only just stumbled in here...my 2 pence worth:

I personally much prefer to hang out with my gay/bi etc etc friends and or my partner, in a gay bar. If the clientelle like to shag or snog aliens, I don't much care. As long as they are there without judgement and are not there to get off on watching for example, 2 girls 'gettin in onnnn' or to ask any lesbian for a 3 some at every opportunity they get...or of course - want to sit gawping at me and my wife like we are some sort of porn stars (in their mind) just sitting trying to have a drink...

My reason for this, is that that is where I feel most comfortable.

My reason for me much prefering so hang out with my fellow like minded gayers, is that eradicates the above examples of what pi$$es me off and offends me. Of course I am not saying that no straight/hetrosexual persons should be allowed into a gay bar, just those that are not coming into the bar to do the above and make me feel uncomfortable.

I must say though, in my OWN opinion, I again do prefer to hang out in a gay bar that welcomes straight people/friends as guests. This is because, over the past few years, I have often been confronted with drunk straight guys wanting to hit me or fight with me. This is not much fun I can assure you. And yes this has happened to me 99% of the time in a straight bar.

Needless to say, I prefer to drink in gay bars.

Just how there are 'working mans clubs', and nights on at pubs/clubs for ethnic groups such as Latino, Indian, African etc etc I am and should be given the right to have a gay bar. To drink in a place that I feel comfortable, unthreatened and relaxed. My choice.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Good post that, Jaws

[Jah Lush]

Good post Jaws.

[Jaws]

Cheers Sean :))

[Jaws]

@NatashaD

May I ask why not?

Would it be ok then, for my wife and I to come into a bar that you frequent, and kiss...touch hands perhaps, without being looked at as though we were commiting a crime? Or would we be welcomed with open arms?

I wonder.

And some people ask why we may like a gay bar.....hmmm.

[pk]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don?t see any problem at all with establishments

> which cater exclusively for any one group. And if

> they have rules to enforce that so be it. They

> aren?t laws. Just as long as people aren?t @#$%&

> about it.

>

> If you want to have an establishment that is gay

> only, men only, women only, 18-25 only or whatever

> because the people who attend feel more

> comfortable that way go ahead is what I say. As

> long as you aren?t discriminating against anyone

> with regards to employment, education, legal

> representation etc.

>

> This is not to say that I personally would

> patronise such places (I kinda like diving

> headlong into a mix of all sorts). I just don?t

> see a problem with it.

i agree

[Keef]

This sort of thing makes me feel torn. On the one hand I see no problem with exclusive places, and I also totally see Jaws' point about wanting to be in a place where you can be yourself and feel comfortable.

However I just want to be in a world where there is no need for that, but I guess I'm living in a dreamworld if I think all colours, creeds, sexualities will all get on and have a drink together.

[Strawbs]

Jaws Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ooooo Errrrrrrr...

>

>

> I've only just stumbled in here...my 2 pence

> worth:

>

> I personally much prefer to hang out with my

> gay/bi etc etc friends and or my partner, in a gay

> bar. If the clientelle like to shag or snog

> aliens, I don't much care. As long as they are

> there without judgement and are not there to get

> off on watching for example, 2 girls 'gettin in

> onnnn' or to ask any lesbian for a 3 some at every

> opportunity they get...or of course - want to sit

> gawping at me and my wife like we are some sort of

> porn stars (in their mind) just sitting trying to

> have a drink...

>

> My reason for this, is that that is where I feel

> most comfortable.

>

> My reason for me much prefering so hang out with

> my fellow like minded gayers, is that eradicates

> the above examples of what pi$$es me off and

> offends me. Of course I am not saying that no

> straight/hetrosexual persons should be allowed

> into a gay bar, just those that are not coming

> into the bar to do the above and make me feel

> uncomfortable.

>

> I must say though, in my OWN opinion, I again do

> prefer to hang out in a gay bar that welcomes

> straight people/friends as guests. This is

> because, over the past few years, I have often

> been confronted with drunk straight guys wanting

> to hit me or fight with me. This is not much fun

> I can assure you. And yes this has happened to me

> 99% of the time in a straight bar.

>

> Needless to say, I prefer to drink in gay bars.

>

>

> Just how there are 'working mans clubs', and

> nights on at pubs/clubs for ethnic groups such as

> Latino, Indian, African etc etc I am and should be

> given the right to have a gay bar. To drink in a

> place that I feel comfortable, unthreatened and

> relaxed. My choice.

Well yes this pretty much what I was trying to say, thank you Jaws aka Mrs Strawbs (I know you hate that he he).. That's one of the reasons why I married you as your are a little better at this kind of thing than I am! :-$:)) x

[Louisa]

Spot on jaws. Every gay bar I have ever been to is trouble free, and i've been to plenty of pubs/clubs/bars in my long life.

Louisa.

[lozzyloz]

Sounds like what you're describing can equally be called a 'No Dickhead's in Here' policy regardless of sexuality. This policy should be strictly enforced in bars, clubs and pubs up and down the country. In fact make that all public places. Can't see any reason why there shouldn't be gay/lesbian only bars. There are many that cater for non-exclusivity so it's not like there's not much choice around and why anybody would want to go somewhere where they're not welcome and not part of the group is beyond me, except that those that do, are often troublemakers.

I think a gay bar in ED would be a positive thing. No doubt there will always be those stuck in a mental rut of their own making, but the vast majority of people in ED would be either welcoming or non-plussed.

[Louisa]

It started off with straight girls wanting a guy free zone to dance, have fun and socialise with gay male/female friends. A certain class of straight man clocked onto that and decided it was worth going to a gay club to search for 'talent', but sadly these men failed to understand the fact that a gay club should be respected for what it is, and not used as a tool to get girls. This is why so many gay people have become hostile to letting straights in nowadays, perhaps they were too hospitable and it damaged their trouble free zone.

Louisa.

[James]

That's pretty much why I prefer gay bars sometimes. I have a long-term boyfriend so it's not about pulling. And there are straight bars/pubs I really like (conversely there are certain gay places I wouldn't touch with a bargepole).

However it's nice not to have to worry about testosterone-charged dickheads ruining your night out. I can't remember a time when there was "trouble" in a gay venue I've been to.

I should point out that it's a minority of straight men I'm talking about. Some of the straight blokes I know are the most friendly, open-minded and generally lovely people I have ever met.

[Cassius]

I have no personal problem with a gay bar whether straight friendly or not, however I wonder how well a desire for a male only or female only (ignoring sexuality) club/bar would go down.

All those male bastions such as Whites Club and other have, (I think) been told that they have had to relax their rules, I also believe that the female only colleges at Oxbridge have had to take men.

If single sex causes such outrage then why is single sexuality accepted as OK?

[NatashaD]

"Would it be ok then, for my wife and I to come into a bar that you frequent, and kiss...touch hands perhaps, without being looked at as though we were commiting a crime? Or would we be welcomed with open arms?"

It would make me want to vomit whether you are gay or straight snogging in a public place. FFS.

It's pathetic snogging in bars - unless you're 14, which is the last time I did it.

You have asked me to elaborate as to why I don't want a gay bar in my area. Have you ever passed through Kennington/Vauxhall and seen a bunch of stereotypically looking gay men hanging outside a certain bar? It would lower the tone in Dulwich.

Gay bars are about as inclusive as white only or black only bars. Plus I don't want to be looking at men with bulging biceps, extremely tight T-shirts, shaven heads, not to mention the mincing walk, in my neck of the woods. Thank you.

Natasha.

[Jah Lush]

NatashaD. Obviously you're talking about the Vauxhall Tavern which is more of a club than a bar and there are plenty of other gay clubs in the area. As for you're stereotypical comments about gay men they leave a lot to be desired.

[RosieH]

The Vauxhall Tavern brightens my Monday mornings reminding me that there are people out there having fun and that we're not all slaves to The Man (although some of us may be slaves to A man - think it's not really that sort of place).

Isn't it strange how the shaved head, ripped muscles, tight t-shirt look is popular with a certain sector of the gay scene as well as with certain of the uber-hetero brockley (bromley?) out of towners on LL of an evening?

Reckon they'd fit right in Natasha.

[mikese22]

wow - so many posts since I last logged on!

my two penn'orth:

Strawbs - sorry I missed your rainbow drinks suggestion - I and some friends would have come!

Others - the debate about public displays of affection is misleading, if a straight couple are kissing they get smirks, tuts and under the breath comments like 'get a room'; if a gay (male) couple are kissing they may get the same reaction from a lot of people but they may also get verbal abuse and worst case attacked; a gay (female) couple I guess may get sleazy and offensive comments - hardly a consistent situation!

The debate about why it's ok to have gay exclusive bars but not men exclusive bars? As far as I am aware the main objection to gentlemen's clubs related to the networking that resulted in women being held back in politics or business - the pink pound may be strong but I don't see much evidence of the FTSE250 being overrun by gays to the detriment of straights!

I'm not really bothered if a gay bar opens in ED, but it would be nice to have somewhere to go where I could be completely relaxed and be myself without looking over my shoulder - though I have kissed a boyfriend in Liquorish and goodbye on the street to no ill effect - so I guess ED is not so bad.

[Louisa]

"You have asked me to elaborate as to why I don't want a gay bar in my area. Have you ever passed through Kennington/Vauxhall and seen a bunch of stereotypically looking gay men hanging outside a certain bar? It would lower the tone in Dulwich."

NatashaD, have you ever passed a stereotypical straight bar with men outside in groups swearing and shouting at each other and girls as they pass? I am pretty sure that lowers the tone of any area, so why would a "stereotypical gay venue", as you put it, lower the tone more than any stereotypical straight venue, or are you just homophobic?

Louisa.

[NatashaD]

Louisa,

I have never, to my knowledge, passed a "stereotypical straight bar with men outside in groups swearing and shouting at each other and girls as they pass" in East Dulwich. Perhaps I dont get out enough.

As to your question am I homophobic? No.