Gay Bar in Dulwich? (Lounged)

[SeanMacGabhann]

You'e right Brendan and If that were the case Brendan of course I would

But I've never encountered that at RVT - far from it in fact

(this topic always ends up in knots doesn't it?)

[Brendan]

What I find funny is most gay people don?t give a shit while the rest of us tie ourselves in knots over it.

[mattindulwich18]

I think tne reason I tend to go to gay venues is because I feel I can be myself and I have to say I dont think I would enjoy a night out in East Dulwich with my partner. I only tend to go to straight places with family or work colleagues. I do not wish to ghetto myself but the weekend in East Dulwich is very much a 'straight' cliental.

[Brendan]

I think (as is evident on other threads) that weekend nights down the strip are pretty shit at moment in most people?s opinions.

[NunheadGirl]

As there are many different 'straight' venues, so it is with gay venues...some allow anyone in, others are intentionally and exclusively gay - this hasn't changed and I doubt it ever will. Some of my best friends are gay (hmmm, I feel a song coming on), and there are some places they go where I simply wouldn't be allowed in because they are male only, exclusively gay clubs....such as XXL, but there are plenty of others that I've been to with them, and I guess this the type of thing I can imagine working in ED. But, the issue is could you really make it a gay / straight friendly bar, rather than 'just another bar'?

Amanda

[Beej]

MitchK Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why do gays need their own pubs nowadays? Just go

> to a normal pub like everyone else.

what? you mean like 'normal' people? :) That's a goodun.

I agree - let's attract more gays!!! It's a gay world afterall. They should turn the drum into a gay bar...

I agree, I think the point is not to exclude anyone, but I think we can all be sensible and sensitive to know that if people understand that a bar is gay by reputation, not just gay friendly, then we gays will tend not to worry too much if our hand slips onto the thigh of our partner.... I mean however the hell 'gay friendly' you say 'straight' bars may be in ED, if I was to launch into a game of tonsil tennis with the guy next to me, as the lovely straight gentry would not hesitate to do, I'd probably get lynched or at best draw looks of horror or disgust. Come on people, we aren't quite there yet!

I say open a gay bar, and all you straightie 180's can come and play, it'll be fun!!! We'll listen to decent music and if I get to chatting you up and you don't like it - you can f$?""% off to the bishop xx

[Louisa]

No offence *Bob* but even to a 35 year old the current gay scene is very different to the one of even a decade ago. Gay people who have strictly gay only policies in clubs tend to be the older generation, and younger gay people tend to want to have nights out in straight venues and the oppurtunity to mix with all types of people, the point I am making is that in a gay venue you will find most gay people are accepting of a straight couple coming in and kissing in front of everyone, but if the role were reversed along any of the pubs down LL, I am pretty sure there would be a lukewarm reception at best. This 'older' generalisation that the gay community (men especially) stick to leather and bondage clubs full of men with moustaches and hairy bears is pretty outdated to the current generation of young gay people who want to be able to appreciate a mixed environment, but sadly I do not think straight people as a rule are accepting of them.

Louisa.

[*Bob*]

No offence Louisa, but taking your old-er relatives to a bar to get fussed over is a bit of a gay tradition in itself. And just like every tourist, you don't exactly get the whole picture.

Your notion that "younger gay people tend to want to have nights out in straight venues and the oppurtunity to mix with all types of people" is simply guff. Younger gay people want to go to gay clubs so they can pull, just like younger straight people do in straight clubs. Incidentally, gay clubs have pretty much the widest age range of any clubs and tend not to be a young or old place to go.

There are gay bars where everyone and their granny (that means you) are welcomed with open arms.

There are gay bars with a majority male entry policy (no sniggering, Ted max).

There are gay bars where straight girls pretend to be lesbians to get in (ironic as lots of gay man don't even like lesbians)

There are gay bars where it's strictly men only.

So there you have it. A full range of experiences from 'come in and have a drink whoever you are' all the way through to 'we don't want your sort around here'.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Am I the only one who thinks pda's from any sex/sexuality are pretty gross? Time and place, people.

[Asset]

no, I was going to post something along those lines myself. Any gender eating face while I'm trying to have a drink is off-putting!

[Jah Lush]

Yeah! I agree with you two young ladies. Gay or straight. Get a room.

[TillieTrotter]

I also agree, its actually pretty embarassing to have to participate in other people's passion:-$

[Beej]

I would agree whole heartedly - but it's not the point I'm making!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The point is the level of horror/shock if it did occur - God do I have to spell this out. There's a big difference in acceptance between a straight couple showing any level of affection in a pub and that same affection from a gay couple. If we had equality - you'd see it far more frequently, cause we gays are bloody everywhere.

PDS's? God that term makes me wanna heave - sounds like an STD

[MadWorld74]

A gay bar in ED is a no goer. Don't wish to expand on why I say this, I just don't think it will ever take off.

[bon3yard]

Well, it'll certainly be nice to have a bit of uptempo house music to shake me booty to. Some fur-pelted rough-house hurled his mandolin at me when I started throwing shapes during his melancholy rendition of Matty Groves the last time I ventured onto the lane of a night . Techno-techno-techno!! ;-)

[mikese22]

The Rye Hotel is supposed to be gayish - landlord is/was gay (by 'was' I mean that the landlord may have moved on, not that he has turned straight!)

We tried to organise regular 'gay drinks' there last year, but after a promising start it didn't really take off - maybe for the reason that MadWorld74 is alluding to??

I'd be up for trying again if anyone else is.....? :)-D

[Asset]

OK Beej Chill. Obviously that is not the point you were making specifically, but I have seen gay couples of both sexes being affectionate with each other in this area without a major uproar occuring. Tonsil tennis as mentioned earlier is a different matter and should be stamped out forthwith!

I too wonder what MW74 is basing her opinion on but as she is unwilling to elaborate, we'll never know!

Boneyard, I'll get down on the floor with you, why is it gay clubs play the best music?

[SeanMacGabhann]

landlord at the Rye was Scott - he is over in Penge now with the Bridge House - well worth a visit

[Huguenot]

I love this debate because it's never transparent ;-)

The initial enquiry seems to be based on establishing a place where the gay community can go to socialise and feel unthreatened, which is not an unreasonable request. However you'd imagine that most bars in ED met this requirement.

The view is contested because the gay community feel they'd still raise a few eyebrows if they started a few more physical antics, again not an unreasonable observation. However, the argument loses focus because you'd raise an equivalent number of eyebrows if you started getting physical in ED bars if you were hetero.

Hence is the real request for simply a 'get physical' bar in ED which in the interests of inclusivity could include both hetero and gay couples?

Apparently not, as the gay community is more angling for a 'special' place. The only challenge with this is that any sort of tribalism in social establishments creates resentment - whether it's Claphamites in the Bishop, Yummies in the Chandelier or Chavs in the Uplands. This kind of resentment isn't about homophobic predisposition, it's about rejecting any kind of social demarcation imposed by 'exclusive' self-appointed groups.

An ego-centric streak often enters at this point, as the gay community argues that a little social pain is more than justified by the fact that gay peeps can now socialise in an establishment where their personal advances are more likely to be reciprocated. This creates indignation amongst hetero communities who know well that just being in a pub full of other heteros doesn't mean that any of them are going to like you ;-)

This confusion is then bundled with romantic views of the gay community as all Abba and Julian Clary.

Personally I find arguments based on a 'threat' to gays as a little bit disingenuous in ED,and more likely to be exacerbated by an exclusive establishment.

I find arguments based on an increased likelihood of pulling and extrovert sexual behaviour a wee bit self-indulgent and don't justify creating dislocations in an easy-going community.

I find arguments in favour of more Abba and dancing as thoroughly reasonable, but unlikely to find sufficient clientele or neighborhood support to be successful in ED.

[TillieTrotter]

Good post Hugo(tu)

[JohnL]

Don't think theres that huge a difference between the Rye and say the George and Dragon in Shoreditch which is supposed 'official' gay friendly. Don't think anyone would bat an eyelid on LL if two boys or two girls kiss either.

Don't think most people would want something like the fort (bermondsey) in ED (that place looks scary to me - but maybe just me :)).

[lozzyloz]

Perhaps those seeking a Gay Bar LL solution could colonise the Magdala when it re-opens before the hetero locals get a toehold. Hopefully the name will change otherwise "I'm taking him up the Magdala" could have all sorts of connotations!

[snorky]

I dont want to negiotiate the various labels that a bar may adopt in order to carve its niche and make its money - I just want to go to a bar soemtimes - an inclusive one where I have a less than averge chance of getting my head kicked in.

[MadWorld74]

I just meant that ED over the years I have lived here has become more 'safe' (has many connotations) and less edgy than it was say, 3 years ago. That's just an observation on my part and why I think a Rainbow pub/bar will never take off.

[Strawbs]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Gay people who have strictly

> gay only policies in clubs tend to be the older

> generation, and younger gay people tend to want to

> have nights out in straight venues and the

> oppurtunity to mix with all types of people,

As a young gay person I could not disagree with you more!! I read this and almost spat my water out with laughter.. Whilst I am open to socialising in straight venues and do regularly due to what is in my surroundings I can assure you that the younger or older generation of gay people would prefer to be in a gay bar any day of the week over a straight bar and regardless of whether people on here like it or not we would prefer there were no straights in the gay bars either..