Gay Bar in Dulwich? (Lounged)

[*Bob*]

Louisa,

You're just not getting it.

What I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with gay men and women. Gay men are always delightful to women, on account of not being interested in shagging them. And vice versa.

[NatashaD]

They're not always 'delightful' to women. Far from it. I work with a gay guy who is a nasty piece of work towards women.

[Cassius]

Sorry *Bob* - some gay guys are great company and very nice to women, but NOT always. I have come across some really unpleasant gay men - just like every other sector of society. I've also come across overweight and badly dressed gay men. Surely the whole idea that gay men are 'different' is actually pretty demeaning - they are just people like gay women, straight men and straight women.

[*Bob*]

I feel my point is being missed and now it's just just getting lost in a load of guff I'm not saying.

I'd like to try and explain better, but I'm too busy watching a Chinese child prodigy playing a large white piano, accompanied by a man who's wearing so much make-up he looks like Max Headroom.

Can anybody else have a stab at what I mean so I don't have to put any more effort in?

[SeanMacGabhann]

* coughs *

My effort at *Bob*'s point is:

He is not generalising about gay or straight men - he is NOT saying straight men ar neanderthals and gay men are adorable. What he is saying is that because straight men don't generally hang out in environments where they are hit upon every few minutes by (and here is the point) other men (sexuality not important) they never truly see just how pathetic a needy bloke can be

If they were in such an environment (and a gay bar/club would provide such an opportunity) then they might learn something about themselves and the way they treat women when they are back out, pulling in their usual haunts

Surely this is now lounge-bound?

[*Bob*]

I couldn't have - in fact, I didn't manage to - put it better myself.

[Jah Lush]

Hurrah! Well done Sean. Can we get back on track or are we off to the lounge.

[ratty]

So when's this fooking gay bar opening then? I wanna get down there and have a pop at all the birds it'll attract!

[clive3300]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It is true, gay men are better looking, more

> insightful and open minded, have better fashion

> sense etc. but straight men are straight. That?s

> why we get da ladies.

>

> Oh yeah.

>

> Booyah!

>

> *Flicks collar up and get a bit of a swagger on*

> *Rolls up sleeves and flexes ?the guns?*

Quite right!

I have always found it odd that much of popular culture suggets that *most* women are generally after a educated, intelligent, cultured - even sensitive man who has good conversation. My experience is entirely the opposite.

Growing up, I quickly learned to always do any cultural activities on the quiet for fear of scaring away women. With almost no exceptions (in my experience), women hated anything to do with art unless it was an accessory they could wear.

I spent university years in the gym to beef up a lot and found that (to my amazement) wearing a cheezy muscle shirt, loudly drinking beer and generally behaving like an oik (all acted of course!) had a phenomenal effect. Women overwelmingly DID want a drunk, sweaty, overconfident idiot chatting them up.

As you say Brendan, dumb attitude and the "guns"...

[clive3300]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I feel my point is being missed and now it's just

> just getting lost in a load of guff I'm not

> saying.

>

Bob, your point was quite clearly made and made sense! I think no matter what you (as in any poster) say on this forum, a self-appointed politically correct team of people will become furious by what you say.

I look forward to the outrage from this very post :)-D.

[*Bob*]

I believe a certain amount of scientific research has gone into this one Clive, and the results concluded that drunk, overconfident and sweaty men were prone to making errors of judgement, but eventually - if they pestered enough women - would probably find one drunk and sweaty enough to have sex with them anyway.

[Brendan]

I think that just says something about South African women Clive. Not that I?m knocking South African women* (I know a few who would quite literally beat me up if I did) it?s just that in general they were never particularly interested in my knowledge of literature.

* I?m a happily married man you know.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Well not every gal goes for Wisden and Viz.

[clive3300]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I believe a certain amount of scientific research

> has gone into this one Clive, and the results

> concluded that drunk, overconfident and sweaty men

> were prone to making errors of judgement, but

> eventually - if they pestered enough women - would

> probably find one drunk and sweaty enough to have

> sex with them anyway.

Bob, FYI this approach is strictly amateur and extremely time and effort wasteful. It is far more likely to get one beaten up by a boyfriend (or by one of Brendan's South African women).

Far better is to observe the reaction of those surrounding and choose where to "charm".

Anyway, back to topic.

[Asset]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa,

> You're just not getting it.

>

> What I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with

> gay men and women. Gay men are always delightful

> to women, on account of not being interested in

> shagging them. And vice versa.

Actually, not true - I have known several bitchy old queens who were absolutely vile to females.

I have met and, depending on the person, befriended, hated, tolerated, loved etc etc my fair share of gay men in my time and you cannot sterotype as all; lovely to women, stylish, handsome, clean, etc etc. That is as off as what is going on on the other thread at the moment.

[*Bob*]

yes yes yes yes yes i know i know i know

It was just to illustrate a point that 'the relationship' between gay men and women will always be different to that of gay men and other men, on account of sex not being an issue. There's even a very popular crappy film based around this well-accepted premise. When Harry met Harry, I think it was called.

[Louisa]

If that is the case, then why is it that as a straight female I can socialise with gay females and be touchy feely without any references to sex or the perception that they are coming onto me, and yet for straight men the thought of a gay man (innocently in most cases) touching or offering affection to a straight guy is so frowned upon and blown out of all proportion.

Equally, I know that not all gay men are camp or wear leather, and I know some very bitchy sour faced queens in their late 40's who I wouldnt give the time of day but I also know some very handsome gay guys who are 6ft plus, extremely straight acting and not very well groomed (perhaps they have the masculine touch?), and even these men are looked down upon when straight guys find out about the sexual preferences of this other guy who is probably more of a man than any of them. I hate political correctness, and for god sakes I am married to a straight man, all I am saying is for me personally an over confident man isnt too appealing, but to many women I am sure it is. I have seen overconfident straight acting gay guys pull women in pubs and end up becoming friends with them purely because the female fancies the pants off the guy she is never likely to bed. It's all highly amusing to me. Anyway, I dont care anymore if there is a gay bar in ED or a gay sauna or even a club for martians, who bloody cares who or what a bar/pub/club is and does as long as it serves beer?

Louisa.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Louisa, I think I've just fallen in love.

[Asset]

I think Louisa may have been on the rose again!

[*Bob*]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If that is the case, then why is it that as a

> straight female I can socialise with gay females

> and be touchy feely without any references to sex

> or the perception that they are coming onto me,

Because Sally is sensible, realistic and a little more and mature about such things.

Harry, on the other hand, would probably try and stick his knob in a post box if he could get away with it.

I'm generalising, of course.

[bon3yard]

...sounds like this Harrys a really bad postman.

[JohnL]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > and yet for straight men the thought of a gay man

> (innocently in most cases) touching or offering

> affection to a straight guy is so frowned upon and

> blown out of all proportion.

>

> but I also know some very handsome

> gay guys who are 6ft plus, extremely straight

> acting and not very well groomed (perhaps they

> have the masculine touch?), and even these men are

> looked down upon when straight guys find out about

>

> Louisa.

I just don't see this in London - I saw it in Swansea when I grew up but not here (except where it is part of a belief system - if you know what I mean - and I can't see what can be done about that)

[NatashaD]

I apologise for stereotyping the guys who go to the Royal Vauxall Tavern. I was obviously so wrong that they have cropped hair and tight t-shirts. Not to mention the ubiquitous neat moustache merging into a neat, cropped beard.

http://www.timjonesmusic.co.uk/images/boyzfeb06.jpg

[*Bob*]

Natasha,

Attempting to justify your description by putting-up photos from a night at a gay bar specifically meant for 'bears' is as silly as going to see the Grimethorpe Colliery Band and coming to the conclusion that all musical instruments must be made of brass.

[Harsh-but-Fair]

Hilarious Natasha. Had to laugh.