Incident Somerfields (Lounged)

[Louisa]

Not a criminal by the legal sense, but obviously this person was doing something wrong to be tackled by security staff in the first place so by accidently saying criminal (which I didnt mean to say) I was just indicating that the initial wrong act which caused the fraca in the first place for whatever reasons led to a situation where others were jumping to the aid of the person who was being dealt with by the relevant in store security without knowing all the facts, is that not as bad as me accidently suggesting this person was a criminal before being tried in court?

Sean - the implication of what most posters have been suggesting on here is that the potential *criminal* gets the oppurtunity to have the upper hand without this having been dealt with by the relevant authorities! I have not twisted any arguments just stated my opinion and tried to stand up for reason in defence of the people who we all expect to have some legitimate authority to detain suspected criminals in Somerfield. I play the class card as you put it because it is what this all leads back to. Middle class do-gooders being judge and jury on the staff rather than thinking why on earth this person was being held in the first place? did they have a weapon? were they threatening violence? I just find your arguments ludicrous and insane to common sense Sean, as I do many others including Asset.

Louisa.

[*Bob*]

Bad loser.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Working class my arse. No class has a monopoly on rights and wrongs.

But the working class of all people should be aware of allowing power to be unchecked. Only an idiot assumes aggression by authorities is always because someone did something wrong. Plenty of working class people have been fitted up in this country.

How are posters on here giving criminals an upper hand? Crime. . Catch. Trial. Judgement. Anything else is just mob rule.

[Louisa]

No class has a monopoloy on rights and wrongs? Try telling the self righteous no it all do-gooding middle class people that then! They hyave a monopoly on politics and the legal system in this country which in turns means that they are the ones who set the agenda in the first bloody place! Are you suggesting Sean that aggression took place because it was the fault of the authority in this case? Why do you jump to the conclusion that the person being held and treated in such a way is in the right without knowing everything? Crime, Catch (hold with as much force as necessary if threatening behaviour is being exhibited, in this case who knows), Trial, Judgement!!!

Louisa.

[bigbadwolf]

(hold with as much force as necessary if threatening behaviour is being exhibited, in this case who knows)

Marmora man stated quite clearly the shoplifter was very passive once caught and was in no way behaving in a way that

invited any form of violence.

[Louisa]

bigbadwolf, as much as I respect MM's judgement on what happened, I am not going to rely on that as enough evidence to find the staff at Somerfield guilty, and neither should you or anyone else. MM was not around for the entire incident and was not in posession of all the details, with the greatest deal of respect.

Louisa.

[bigbadwolf]

Although I doubt you'd get much if any feedback, has anybody thought of actually going to the source and asking at the shop what happened and why they were so extreme in the handling of the situation.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Quick Synopsis for Newcomers to this thread..

Geezer has gone in Somerfields,chanced his arm doing a lil teefing.Got collared in the act.Been given a smack or two for his trouble by Security who gave him an extra dig for the road.Poetic Justice,innit say some-others are crying "Foul!"....

....to be continued...

[Guest]

Nice summary, TLS.

Anyone else spot the similarity to the baby fox cub thread?

[Narnia]

This thread is a joke. Someone steals, gets roughed up and next thing it's class warfare. Would someone define how 'working class' and 'middle class' are defined? According to some posts here it seems only the middle class reproduce while presumably the 'working' class support them as they have jobs! Being an alien i.e from another country as opposed to a planet, I've met people with different accents who are English but presumably there's more to it than that. Looking forward to being enlightened.

[HonaloochieB]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> bigbadwolf, as much as I respect MM's judgement on

> what happened,

So we agree an that as a truthful report of what happened.

I am not going to rely on that as

> enough evidence to find the staff at Somerfield

> guilty,

Good, no one has asked you or anyone else to do so.

> not around for the entire incident and was not

> in posession of all the details, with the greatest

> deal of respect.

So to sum up.

A shoplifter was seen to be given an excessive mauling (or drubbing or duffing) by a chap who you consider a reliable witness. You think this is OK just because...

[CamberwellOz]

I think I blinked and missed a EDF mini war.

I'm one of the breeders who works as well. What does that make me?

[CamberwellOz]

3/4 class.

[will dex]

How can we stop this thread from being lengthened(& the foxcub wireds**t one)??? (h.e.l.p.)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

I'm in a mellow mood today.I agree with everything that everyone has said on this thread.

[Administrator]

Lounged. I can not have this in the East Dulwich issues/gossip section anymore.

[Marmora Man]

-- moved topic --

[Marmora Man]

coachkelly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MM...apologies if this has been brought up as I

> tried to read all posts but may have missed one or

> two, but as you witnessed what seems like a

> criminal assault ,did you report it to the Police?

Yes

[Marmora Man]

MM was not around for the entire incident and was not in posession of all the details, with the greatest deal of respect.

I saw the incident from almost beginning to the arrival of the police - to whom I gave a statement. I considered the actions of the Somerfield staff excessive, they weren't prepared to listen to my, or others, remonstrations so I called the police. I'm not claiming my reports was 100% accurate - no witness ever sees everything - but I stand by my report.

I can be as strong a supported on Law 'n Order as the next man and hard on criminal activity - but I prefer the criminals to have been thru' the justcie system before punishment. The only exception being defending myself, my family, my property from active criminal activity - and then I subscribe to minimum force necessary.

[Louisa]

HonaloochieB Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

You think this is OK

> just because...

This person was stealing from someone and they were using force to hold them because perhaps, this person threatened violence. FOR THE UPTENTH TIME.

MarmoraMan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The only exception being defending myself, my family,

my property from active criminal activity - and then

>I subscribe to minimum force necessary.

So the Somerfield staff to sum up could have been perfectly within their rights to defend themselves, their job role and their customers from active criminal activity by in their eyes subscribing to minimum force necessary (considering you do not know what this person was threatening or what they found on them). It works both ways MM, so therefore this entire thread is ridiculous. These staff members did what they thought necessary and this is not even out of court yet and YOU are telling people on a forum that staff members at Somerfield are heavy handed on potential criminals. Obsurd. What happened to democracy and the courts deciding? Need I say anymore?

Louisa.

[Mark]

no, please don't.

[Louisa]

You can shut your cakehole too.

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Are you really telling people to shut up louisa? Or have you finally found a way to stick your tongue in your cheek?

[Louisa]

I guess thats for me to know and everyone else to ponder Sean!

Louisa.

[Cassius]

Obsurb - that's a good new word - what does it mean? Does it go with obtuse and obstinate and obscurantist and obsessive and obstructive?